Scarlet fixed for journalism

[Justin Schoenborn]

To those with much more knowledge than I,

What are your opinions on using the scarlet fixed as a journalism camera for the field? If the camera launches at a 5k-6k pricepoint I would assume it may be a better value than a DSLR that had the build quality to take a beating + glass.

Ill have my degree in media J in roughly a year and while that by no means , means I'll be overseas filming a war zone, it's nice to dream . (of the camera, not being in a warzone) And I would be using the camera for my photo + video business as well.

 

[Steve Wake]

Don't know if I have much more knowledge than you, but my answer is sure, why not consider it at this point?

But as far as durability and fieldability compared to a pro dslr: no claim has ever been made regarding dust or water resistance; the media holder (side CF or SSD) is not sealed with a door; no one has used one out in the wild long enough to make any conclusions regarding its ability to take a beating; you'll need to shoot with an evf or LCD hanging off the side or on top.

Other factors: FAST ISO capability; nice focal length range that can be extended with adapters; can be used to shoot stills at hyper fast burst rates; unfortunately only about 4 MP usable stills when you consider the sensor's cinema aspect ratio - though that's plenty for web and it apparently uprezzes nicely; motion and sound quality way beyond the requirements of the daily news; many workflow options to maximize turnaround speed or quality.

In a year I'm sure there will be much more user feedback to help you make an informed decision.

 

[Robert Jackson]

The only thing I'd add is that ENG lenses tend to have very high zoom ratios. The average these days is from about 14x to 20x with some of them having built-in 2x teleconverters that get them up to 40x. But ENG stuff has to be a Swiss Army Knife. You never change lenses in the field and you almost never know what kind of insane thing you'll have to cover from day to day, so you need to be able to zoom in forever if they send you to stand outside a bank robbery gone south or some other nonsense that you can't (and shouldn't) get too close to. "Hey look, a second car has toppled into that sinkhole. It seems to be widening at an alarming rate. The police are urging us all to move back now, but we're just too terrified of being replaced by an intern to comply!"

So if that's the game you're talking about, it's probably not your best bet. But for like...you know...actual journalism...the stuff nobody will pay you to do anymore...yeah, it should usually be fine for that.

I can remember laying in the grass across from a Red Roof Inn where a hostage standoff was taking place once and thinking, "What did I do that put me here waiting to see if I can get footage of someone stopping a bullet?" And of course snipers eventually shot the guy. I still can't drive by the place without taking a long look at it and all I actually saw/shot was glass breaking.

 

[Graeme Hay]

If you read the Epic Manual it states there is very little in weather sealing, and not to take the camera out in the rain, etc. These are designed to be cinematic cameras so I would tend to think no for Journalism in uncontrolled environments when you compare to a DSLR with proper weather sealing.

 

[Ash Worth]

No. It's not going to be 'ideal' for journalism.
RAW files will be difficult to deal with quickly. There will be no time for lengthy transcodes.
You will often be in places where you are away from support for hours at a time.
You may need cards for multiple days without offloading.
Size. We are more used to smaller, less obvious cameras in the field.
Weatherproofing.
And my experience with the RED ONE at least is that it is delicate.

Just remember the DSLR's took off gangbusters because they added video to cameras for photographers in the field. They don't need RAW hence the use of questionable codec.

 

[David Rasberry]

Scarlet will be a pretty good Swiss Army knife of a camera in its own right. I would say for journalists it would depend on whether your primary emphasis is on video work or stills work.
Raw work flow is not a serious impediment any more than it is for still photographers. Scarlet has enough resolution to serve for Web or newsprint media stills, but would be best for motion work.
Add something like a Teradek Cube and you can stream live H.264 from anywhere you can get a wi-fi link, or record H.264 to a laptop or tablet computer, for hours or days at a time if need be.
Major NLE's all support native Redcode editing on the timeline without transcoding. A reasonably powerful laptop is all that is needed to edit and finish typical news stories efficiently and you can deliver to multiple different formats as needed or pull stills directly from the motion video with no loss of quality.
A rain cover takes care of any weather issues. Most video cameras are not as weatherized as the better DSLR's in any case.
Weight is possibly an issue, but would be offset by the need to carry multiple lenses for a DSLR, and the premium models in Scarlet's price range aren't really much lighter.
It isn't significantly larger than a DSLR or medium format stills camera if configured that way.

 

[Leo Sardello]

Well, as usual there are some pretty gross exaggerations posted in response to your question to be found in this thread Justin.

Like ANY tool Scarlet will have some potential downsides that you’ll want to consider when making a decision as every tool has its pros and cons. And it will depend on what type of journalism you are looking to do. It sounds to me from your post that you are interested in doing some type of freelance journalism. I say this because if you’re working for CNN or heck even KUSA or whatever you may not really get a choice. The station may provide you with the camera you will shoot on.

In any case to address a couple of concerns that have been brought up:

Anyone taking *most* any camera into adverse conditions without having purchased additional protection for the camera is simply foolish. If you are shooting in the rain a rain cover is the answer not a DSLR, for which you should have a rain cover as well. Same goes for dusty conditions etc. As mentioned earlier, it remains to be seen how well Scarlet will hold up without these types of wise percausions.

A freelancer is likely to shoot in one format chosen for a variety of reasons and will then have to transcode to another delivery format based on who you are delivering to. The fact you’ll have to transcode from RED RAW to some deliverable format is almost totally moot, especially given the efficiency of modern computers.

*EDIT* oops see David's post about some potential options for on-the-fly transcoding that would render this point moot. Man I alway get beat to the punch.

The fact that you will be away from support and may need a supply of media to cover time in the field applies to ALL cameras and is therefore moot.

The size and design aesthetic only impact you if you specifically require stealth amongst a group of tourists.

Personally I can see many reasons why a freelance journalist would want to use a Scarlet and think it will work well in many situations. My recommendation to you is to continue your research on camera equipment throughout the rest of your education and then make the appropriate decision based on the career path you choose. As stated by others, by that time there will be a lot more REAL WORLD information about how the Scarlet fits into these types of scenarios that will aid you in your decision making.

Hope that helped in some small way.

 

[Ash Worth]

I would also ask this question on other camera forums, it's unlikely you will get unbiased answers here just as you would any other forum supporting any other camera. Ask working journalists too, they are the only ones who will know for sure.

Are any journalists using RED ONES in the field? That would be good to find out and indication of how easily it is to use RAW as a format for this type of work.

The fact that you will be away from support and may need a supply of media to cover time in the field applies to ALL cameras and is therefore moot.

I would say this is bad information. With a tape based system you can keep quite a few tapes on hand which translates into hours of storage. With CF based systems you could do the same, both at a low cost.

Lets just say 10 hours of storage. Tell me exactly what storage you would use to store the RAW files and how much it would cost? Please share this information.

Just research on this forum and you will see that the RED MX is losing out to the Alexa because it shoots Pro Res natively and this on productions that traditionally do have the ability to handle large files.

Prores should be an option in every RED model, not just epic.

I thought I'd search this topic as I sit here starting to process footage from Red Cine to pro-res. It's not about data management at all, or whether people are too invested in FCP or any of the other arguments made here.
Here's some real talk. I work in Toronto and here, right now, this is what it's about:

90% of the post production houses and editors are FCP/apple based. The majority of the work done in Toronto is in the mid-low end commercial world, music videos, web and TV shows. Most of these being low budget by American standards and most of them being HD delivery for TV and web, Pro-res is considered a perfectly acceptable option as far as image quality and compression go for about half these productions and companies. Therefor, every other company and their brothers are switching to Alexa and shooting straight to pro-res because they can.

People are renting RED-MX's for peanuts here now and there isn't an Alexa in the city that has a day off. That is a fact, like it or not and I would bet my bottom dollar it's happening almost entirely because of the pro-res option. The added cost of Alexa body out weighs the added cost of processing and conforming .R3D for commercial/video production companies at the end of the day, not to mention the faster delivery times and lower storage space demands.

If RED wants to compete with Arri right now, in the industries current state, this is going to have to happen and soon and NOT just on the EPIC. You can't just say "well you can get this piece of hard ware or hire this technician to handle the footage." I speak with editors almost daily about this, and they're all pushing Alexa as hard as the DP's and producers are at the moment.

Those are my thoughts and observations on the subject anyway. Some interesting points in this thread, glad I looked it up.

The Scarlet potentially will be a fantastic camera for specific projects and not ideal for others, just like any other camera. Once you start saying it will be great for everything you start to lose credibility.

 

[Leo Sardello]

I would say this is bad information. With a tape based system you can keep quite a few tapes on hand which translates into hours of storage. With CF based systems you could do the same, both at a low cost.

I am sure that you would.

You’re blanket all-encompassing statement that Scarlet will not be good for journalism because one might need cards for multiple days of shooting without offloading was properly addressed by post. Only now are you suggesting that cost of media will be a factor, which may or may not be the case both in general and for the OP.

Lets just say 10 hours of storage. Tell me exactly what storage you would use to store the RAW files and how much it would cost? Please share this information.

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVnArp9ZE0&feature=related

Why don’t you tell me exactly which 3k tape-based system you plan to take out into the field and how much it would cost first?

The Scarlet potentially will be a fantastic camera for specific projects and not ideal for others, just like any other camera. Once you start saying it will be great for everything you start to lose credibility.

True. It will not be ideal for every project. Unfortunately you are not addressing any specific project but an entire category of production: journalism. Once you start blindly ruling out entire production segments without any consideration of ways in which a tool might be useful in those segments, you start to lose credibility.

 

[Ash Worth]

Ok I'll be specific. I'm interested in storage capabilities for a project that requires 5-10 hours of backup for a project. If you don't know then that's fine but don't post misinformation about the camera being ideal this type of project.

Blanket statements are the norm here especially when declaring how great the Scarlet is.

 

[Justin Schoenborn]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all of your replies. You all bring up very valid and helpful points. No reason for anyone to get too heated up at one another.

The reason I was originally considering the Scarlet was from a size and speed perspective. (Besides the obvious, who wouldn't want one?!) Though I am absolutely in love with interchangeable glass, the all-in-one lens from a speed standpoint is pretty enticing. And if I went the DSLR route I would have a minimum of two bodies and a bag full of glass anyway. With the two bodies and all the glass and the monitoring options and proper audio, the Scarlet actually may end up being the cheaper option. The only thing that concerns me is the weather sealing, but I have no idea what kind of conditions I'll be in anyway.

And who says journalism has to be shot at 30fps? With the faster burst rates you could create some extremely engaging editorial content..

 

[David Rasberry]

Ok I'll be specific. I'm interested in storage capabilities for a project that requires 5-10 hours of backup for a project. If you don't know then that's fine but don't post misinformation about the camera being ideal this type of project.

Blanket statements are the norm here especially when declaring how great the Scarlet is.

Assuming it is being shot for US TV broadcast at 30fps, 10 hours of 3K raw Redcode at the highest quality/3:1 compression (mathematically lossless) 12bit capture would need 2.7 terabytes more or less for a single off load and backup of the camera media. Two complete backups would take about 12 500GB 2.5" hard drives at about $75 each and a $250 Red Station 2.5" drive bay or two. So about $1500 worth of hardware to store and provide duplicate backups of all originals to allow you to reuse camera media. Edit real time directly from the drives.

 

[Ash Worth]

Thanks David. This is valuable information.

 

[Robert Rogoz]

Most likely Scarlet will not be ideal camera. It's all speculation, as RED did not update any info on specs for the camera, but... zoom range is too small for one. Your storage will cost you a bank. I just wanted to point out your DSLR will be rejected most likely for any narrative pieces. It can be accepted, but not or HD broadcast. Vast majority of networks want 50Mbs MPEG2 422 for HD broadcast, DSLR is is 4:2:0. Also synchronizing hours of sound and picture will be a real nightmare. There s a ton of good 2/3" cameras on the market that fit the bill perfectly at reasonable cost.

 

[Henrique Silva]

There s a ton of good 2/3" cameras on the market that fit the bill perfectly at reasonable cost.

Which cameras?

edit:retorical question, for me a person that seeks a initial "low cost" system Scarlet is ideal.

 

[Leo Sardello]

Ok I'll be specific. I'm interested in storage capabilities for a project that requires 5-10 hours of backup for a project. If you don't know then that's fine but don't post misinformation about the camera being ideal this type of project.

Blanket statements are the norm here especially when declaring how great the Scarlet is.

The information required to figure out a reasonable approximation for any scenario is out there if you want to figure it out for yourself. I don’t have a need to for this one and won’t spend my time on it as a result.

Anyone who requires this amount of storage without being able to offload it is going to have to make concessions of various kinds. You may have to make a concession in quality, or you may have to buy more media and make a concession in upfront cost, or you may have to make some other concession to get there. And this is still true of ANY camera and that is not misinformation. Nor does saying so make any claim that Scarlet is “ideal” for some specific project for which it may not be.

Scarlet is a flexible and versatile camera that can provide the journalist with a wide range of options. Options that allow a journalist in the field to choose his settings to maximize his storage time, or to maximize his quality- and he can choose those settings on the fly to suit his needs which will make the Scarlet a useful tool for some journalists. But we could go round and around on this and I've made my points- so that's the last of it for me on this one.

I cordially bid a good day to you sir.

 

[David Rasberry]

Most likely Scarlet will not be ideal camera. It's all speculation, as RED did not update any info on specs for the camera, but... zoom range is too small for one. Your storage will cost you a bank. I just wanted to point out your DSLR will be rejected most likely for any narrative pieces. It can be accepted, but not or HD broadcast. Vast majority of networks want 50Mbs MPEG2 422 for HD broadcast, DSLR is is 4:2:0. Also synchronizing hours of sound and picture will be a real nightmare. There s a ton of good 2/3" cameras on the market that fit the bill perfectly at reasonable cost.

Scarlet can record sound on camera just like any other video camera. If you outfit one for ENG style shooting, it will likely cost about as much as the cheapest entry level 2/3" ENG cams from Sony or Panasonic, about $18k. If raw acquisition doesn't suit hang an aftermarket recorder on it. But it will be capable of so much more. It might not be the best choice for a broadcast station, but for a solo stringer/videographer/ film maker it offers a lot. It opens opportunities in many different types of production. It may not be the ideal ENG camera, but as a general purpose camera that can serve many roles well I can't think of anything comparable anywhere close to its price.

 

[Paul Hudson]

I suppose if you outfit it right; with a nat sound mic and a mount that is quickly converted from the tripod to shoulder mount, an on board light and a mount for wireless it would be okay. The range of the zoom and the workflow could be a sticking point but it is all speculation at this point.

 

[Robert Rogoz]

I mean what are we discussing here? I think the whole this whole conversation is silly:
What are the broadcaster specs?
What type of programming is it- news or narrative?
what kind of environment is it? (like what chances of actually braking the camera?)
These are the question should be answered before any logical discussion can take place.
BTW- like I stated earlier- if you use DSLR as your A-cam- I am pretty positive it will get rejected flat out, unless broadcaster OK's it beforehand. Plus dealling with hours of footage not synchronized with sound will simply drive editor mad.
So if you don't have a contract in hand and you are shooting and trying to sell my advice will be to stick to approved list of cameras of your target network.

 

[Robert Rogoz]

Scarlet can record sound on camera just like any other video camera. If you outfit one for ENG style shooting, it will likely cost about as much as the cheapest entry level 2/3" ENG cams from Sony or Panasonic, about $18k. If raw acquisition doesn't suit hang an aftermarket recorder on it. But it will be capable of so much more. It might not be the best choice for a broadcast station, but for a solo stringer/videographer/ film maker it offers a lot. It opens opportunities in many different types of production. It may not be the ideal ENG camera, but as a general purpose camera that can serve many roles well I can't think of anything comparable anywhere close to its price.

Scarlet is recording sound- DSLR is not. You'll need a sound recorder, then synch the two together- it's fine if you have only 30 minutes of footage, anything above that (not scripted) is simply not workable. Also why is everyone bent of actually owning a camera? If you have a project part of it will be securing funding. Rent the camera you'll need, it's much cheaper. Scarlet will not be as cheap as initial price- yet again speculation as the web page needs to be updated with specs, but fast CF cards are $pendy. Also Canon produces wonderful camera which is approved for HD broadcast by Discovery (gold) and BBC HD. The advantage is you can edit the codec native in FCP, with manageable file sizes and fantastic quality. And unlike Scarlet, it's not a working early prototype, but you can actually buy it at this very moment. I think discussing technical aspects, comparing the specs or talking about possible uses of a early prototype camera that have not produced footage (a 2 second looped snipped is not viewable footage) is simply silly.
Also I can't find any info if 2/3" broadcast servo lenses can be used with Scarlet brain.