scarlet dragon

[francisco santos]

Anyone know where I can find some raw r3d or sample dragon footage to play with? Beating my head against the wall epic or scarlet dragon! Need a new cam cant go epic dragon quite yet. Any help would be appreciated

Cheers,
Francisco

 

[Leroy Jackson]

Epic.... then save them chips for a Epic Dragon. Don't wast your time on the scarlet Dragon IMHO. I had My Epic my upgraded and ohhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh.... In my Hulk Hogan voice haha.

 

[Christopher-lee dos Santo]

I wouldn't put the Scarlet Dragon down so quickly. I'll see if I can upload some R3D files from a feature shot on Scarlet Dragon at 5K WS 7:1 on Zeiss Compact Primes.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

A tough decision which is mainly based on what your wallet tells you. Don't forget all the needed surrounding acc when purchasing.
You won't be able to upgrade the Scarlet but it's the better quality sensor. Both give you 5K, the Epic X with a little less crop factor. If you seldom need slo mo, the Scarlet Dragon is a valid choice which at least can get you 4K@60fps.
You can always try to sell the Scarlet body if you want to upgrade. Friend of mine sold his Scarlet X body to purchase a new Scarlet Dragon body because it still sold well and it made sense money wise at the time.
Don't underestimate the Scarlet.
Check Phil's threads. I believe you should be able to find some R3Ds there.

 

[francisco santos]

I want to see the scarlet dragons r3d I have shot using epic dragon, regular epic and scarlet all great cameras but my needs really only require 5k 60fps ws so I dont need the epic if the scarlet will get the job done. Hopeing to see some r3ds posted talk is cheap i need to play with the files hahaha

 

[francisco santos]

I wouldn't put the Scarlet Dragon down so quickly. I'll see if I can upload some R3D files from a feature shot on Scarlet Dragon at 5K WS 7:1 on Zeiss Compact Primes.

YES please I shot a ton of projects on my old scarlet before selling it.

 

[sam karr]

Scarlet Dragon has everything. It's the closest thing to super35 film cameras you can find. Same sensor size, DR, colors, the same framerates you find on some arriflex, panaflex etc. 4kws at 75fps is even more than many of these cameras. Just enough framerates so you stay creative, by finding concepts and stories, and don't become one of these lazy directors & cinematographers that just slow down anything thinking shooting any crap @120fps is arty and cool. 80% of vimeo's red footages are relatives and friends walking or doing boring stuffs at high speed. And with HFR in any smartphone now it will not get any better.
I had the same choice to make. Epic mx or scarlet dragon. Then I just imagined myself receiving either of these cameras. Shooting suddenly with an epic mx would not change anything. I would have the same colors, same DR. I never had any trouble with compression. I never had any trouble with sharpness. So the only difference that i could actually feel would be the framerates. But I know myself, i would play with that for 2 days and would get bored of that effect that already bores me when watching the work of others. Less cropping too, but again, i have all the lenses I need now with my scarlet. So essentially i would spend 9500$ for not much difference. Shooting with scarlet dragon would give me more for my money. 100% of my shots will look better. 4k was already great on my scarlet, 75fps @4kws will be great on the dragon. I needed to buy some IRND filters, no need anymore, i will just use my regular NDs. I can make 6k still photos. 5k is almost too sharp for my tastes for motion. Epic Dragon is sure nice too but I feel more comfortable with a less expensive camera to bring with me all the time. And I can use these extra 9500$ for gimbal, etc.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I want to see the scarlet dragons r3d I have shot using epic dragon, regular epic and scarlet all great cameras but my needs really only require 5k 60fps ws so I dont need the epic if the scarlet will get the job done. Hopeing to see some r3ds posted talk is cheap i need to play with the files hahaha

SCARLET DRAGON shoots 5K WS 60 fps at 16:1 compression. That's a lot of compression, and while it may work for some scenes, it will surely not work for others ;-(

EPIC DRAGON shoots 5K WS 60 fps at 6:1 compression on mini-mags. That's less compression than the best SCARLET DRAGON can do at 24 fps (which is 7:1 for 5K WS)

Elsewhere it has been shown how compression affects aspects of image quality. If you read the whole thread, not just my post, you'll see that it is a complex subject, and that one single test or another doesn't answer all questions for all time. But in general:

If you need a clean key for VFX, compress as little as possible, period. Preferably 4:1 or less.

If you are very picky, but not absolutely compulsive, good results are to be had between 5:1 and 7:1.

8:1 is a really solid middle ground between excellent image quality, media efficiency, and, coincidentally, the limit of what SCARLET DRAGON can shoot at 5K FF.

If you are picky and need to stretch things, 10:1 is still pretty good, and 12:1 may well work.

If you have to go beyond 12:1, you are definitely entering the world of compromise, and every step you take is more compromised. How many steps you can afford to take is up to you. If you really think you need 5K at 60 fps, and you cannot afford to buy an EPIC DRAGON, the answer is simple: rent an EPIC DRAGON. Or be prepared to see B-camera quality from the SCARLET DRAGON.

 

[Mike Garrick]

As we go into dec 1. I will say going Epic, you are buying into a superseded sensor. ( though a great one) Given the ridiculous ROI. on cameras I wouldn't be buying into any superseded sensor period.

Sam makes a coherent case for just why SD can make a lot of sense. The truth is SD = the latest sensor which surpasses current Epic MX ( apart from HFR).

P.S nice to see Sam your "good" with your decision.

 

[sam karr]

Thanx Mike.
I often wonder what kind of work people here are doing seeing how much pixelpeeping they do. Sometimes it sounds like everybody is making or will make the next "hobbit". The people who are actually doing theaters movies for the big screen can rent 5 epic dragon or any alexa if they want. I can't see any big serious production hiring a guy because he owns the camera and they can avoid to rent one. The majority here are doing some work for tv, internet, etc. Scarlet Dragon will be more than efficient for the vast majority of people here. Making it sound like SD compression is too weak is silly. I played with some MX vx scarlet dragon R3Ds and the dragon's compression is better indeed. Let's not forget that The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo framing was only 3600 pixels large, that social network was 4k and 7.5:1 compression with VFX. I'm a photographer working mainly with medium format film cameras. My negatives have grain, they are not perfect, but they have more soul than clean digital. I see so many guys on these forums (I will not tell any name but i guess we all met some) that are just stuck with gear lust, pixel peeping, reviewing tools that they forget to actually do something interesting with these tools. I guess that the fact to not be satisfied and to think that they need more for their big big project is just an excuse or a fear. The day Red will anounce a new sensor, these same people will start talking about the limitations of the dragon, and the fact that this is finally the camera they've been waiting for. Give a scarlet dragon to a talented guy, he will go anywhere without caring for technical details. Even on the big screen. It's not about how clean or how sharp it is, it's about the emotions people have by watching the images.
Oh and thank you Christopher-Lee, it's your footages that made me push the upgrade button at the end.

 

[Naim Sutherland]

Here is a frame from Scarlet Dragon: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?125065-Dragon-Artifacts&p=1444474#post1444474

 

[Anthony Berenato Jr]

I wish I was home right now to chime in with a few R3Ds, but I just got into Ireland yesterday. Honestly, go Scarlet Dragon. The sensor is beautiful in comparison to MX. Even with high frame rate, the compression is rather clean compared to its MX counterpart... Just make sure you expose properly (and try shooting at a lower ISO). Never had the ability to be behind a camera with color and contrast output that looked like what my eye's saw.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

My $0.02.

If the Epic Dragon didn't exist, the Scarlet Dragon would be the best true high resolution camera out there.
If you have the moolah, go Epic Dragon. If you can't swing it, go SD and you will be very happy.

 

[Tristan Houghton]

Scarlet Dragon is more then enough for 90% of work. Save the extra money from getting epic and get a few extra toys such as inspire 1 and one of the numerous options of gimbals and you could make anything!

 

[Tristan Houghton]

Here are a few still images from a commercial job I shot with my Scarlet Dragon with mostly natural light only and straight DG4/REDGAMMA4

 

[Tristan Houghton]

All shot with Skin Tone/Highlight OLPF

 

[francisco santos]

All shot with Skin Tone/Highlight OLPF

sold! does the new dragon come with the skintone highlight olpf? which glass?

 

[Tristan Houghton]

This was shot on Ziess Superspeeds, yep it comes standard with the skin tone/highlight OLPF. Order the Low Light one as another option in your kit which might come in handy in specific low light projects, for $250 its silly not too!

 

[Jeremiah Patton]

I also decided, after much wrestling, to go with the Scarlet Dragon vs Epic. I've pushed the MX sensor pretty far and want to go father and Epic would be the same, just better framerates/compression. If you have lots of money and a really established cash flow then Epic Dragon sure, but for those of us who are beginning our careers and companies we're faced with a quandary where the evolution of a new sensor is simply tempting.

 

[Christopher-lee dos Santo]

Thanx Mike.
It's not about how clean or how sharp it is, it's about the emotions people have by watching the images.
Oh and thank you Christopher-Lee, it's your footages that made me push the upgrade button at the end.

My pleasure man, its a great camera and I am glad I could help. I also believe in the fact that a camera is just a tool, an important one, but it is the story that counts more in the end. For example, I directed my first feature film and sold it to 25 international territories, it's available on dvd/bluray, netflix, playstation network, xbox live, itunes, amazon etc... and guess what, we shot it on a Canon 7D. I wanted to shoot RED, but at the time it was out of my budget. Sure the Canon 7D had it's limitations, but the film was made for $40000. Yes, forty thousand US Dollars. It is a stepping stone for me as an Indie film maker and now I have a RED of my own to shoot my next feature on. So win win...

So, I strongly believe the scarlet Dragon is more than capable of delivering the needs of any filmmaker, be it a feature, music video, commercial.

Francisco, I'll see if I can get one of the R3D files onto a dropbox for you to play with. What compression/frame rate would you like?