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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Dragon or Epic Dragon

A

Augusto Alves da Silva

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Hi all. I am a DP which like most of you uses a lot of different cameras due to the nature of the jobs or preferences in image texture, light etc... I have never bought a RED like I have never bought an Alexa due to the advances of technology in many fields and also due to 80% of my work doesn´t demand more than a 1DC, BM, C300 etc... So most of my money even in TV commercials is shot with those cameras. Sometimes also with Arri Alexa but we always have on set plenty of other cameras that we manage to intercut very well. For the last 2 years I have been seriously investing in aerial filming and also the gimbal business including Freefly Tero. Due to these new areas I now feel the need of buying one RED. It is due to its form factor the perfect camera for multirotors and handheld gimbals. Now the difficult part. I was never really impressed with the sensor sensitivity on the MX cameras but recently worked with a Dragon and it was a pleasant surprise. So I have to make a decision about buying it. Now the choice is Scarlet or Epic. I know Epic is the top of line but I can handle ok the 4k instead of 6k and the 150 fps limit on the Scarlet. Apart from the frame rate should I expect the same performance from the Scarlet (never worked with one) compared to the Epic? I would save a lot of money and the as I told before I don´t have much demand for a RED in most jobs. Anyone might help to decide.

Thanks
 
Augusto - given your explanation I would recommend the Scarlet. It is also a "cheaper" camera to crash with - whether that be aerials or your Tero... ;o)

Over the last two years I have had the Scarlet I only needed to rent the Epic handful of times. With the updated Dragon specs those instances will be even fewer in the future. I also personally like how the "cropped" Scarlet matches the S35 I am used to from film background in terms of FoV, DoF and other optical characteristics - but this is personal preference...

Just my two yen...

:sifone: Peter
 
My Mx Scarlet performs good enough for any of my projects but it's surprising how many people just want my Epic Dragon on their jobs since I got it .. it's a bit of a wank factor if you ask me because people just want to say it's shot on the "Epic Dragon" .. so consider that when buying, the extra 10k would probably pay itself off with the extra work you get
 
Remember the Epic Dragon can shoot 5:1 compression as opposed to the Scarlet Dragon shooting 8:1 compression. If you can really see the difference in quality, that still needs to be discussed. But as mentioned in numerous threads, the new dragon compression is much better than the old MX compression, so dragon 8:1 compression is about as good as the old MX 5:1 compression. So in that regard, the Scarlet is still a badass camera.

Epic Dragon can shoot 6K, Scarlet Dragon can shoot 6k, but only for 12fps in burst mode. So, you're really only going to be shooting at 5K for films and other motion picture medium stuff. Shooting 150fps on the scarlet will require you to shoot at 2K resolution and this will crop the image down, so remember that.

With all that being said, I don't think these are limiting factors. 5K is good enough. I mean the Hobbit and Prometheus were shot at 5K... do you need more than that now? Do you need more fps than 150 at 2k? If the answer is yes and you are looking to rent out the camera, then maybe save up for the Epic.
 
I have the Scarlet Dragon, and I'm never going to run it at 150fps at 2K. It looks.... Not the best. Epic will be able to handle that with ease, so anything above 80fps, Epic will be way better at slowmo.

At 24fps, Scarlet Dragon is everything I want it to be! However, I just shot in the woods today, shot some 10:1 30fps (slight slowmo), and the macro blocking was already starting to show up. Makes me want 6K 2:1, but the whole "money" thing gets rid of that idea. :P

I took a small part of an image to really show the differences between the REDCODE if used in a high detail area, such as woods.

8:1 next to 16:1, both 5K


side%20by%20side.jpg


And both of these are using A.D.D. and D.E.B.
 
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plus dont forget with the higher frame rates that the bayer pattern itself takes away some quality (some estimate a third of the resolution is lost in the bayer pattern a major reason cameras oversample like alexa/f65/5d/etc). 1k and 2k on my scarlet mx was fun for the speed, but as much as i liked it with an epic i can now do the same frame rates at high res with less IQ issues when it comes to resolving power, compression, etc. I like my higher end system and now the prices are so much more affordable since the massive price cut happened...it ain't like buying an arri these days so you may as well sleep on it, test both... scarlet dragon to epic dragon once they aren't selling just Ms and carbons is not a huge pricing difference...

ps if i was a betting man i'd guess on dec 1st prices for dragon upgrade may not be the only readjustment on their pricing schemes...something to consider...i imagine even if not then one day mxs will be sold BT real cheap like red ones were..
 
Brian

What exactly are you predicting here? That the price difference between Epic / Scarlet will increase?

FWIW, I recommend going Epic. Even at today's prices I think Epic is an all around better value. Prior to the huge price decrease way back when I think it was the other wat around, But today I would bite the bullet and and go Epic. :)
 
For me the killer feature is the greater FOV and crop-ability. Depending on what lenses you shoot with it could save you some money or not even be a useable feature.
 
When faced with the same choice, I went with EPIC DRAGON for my first camera and SCARLET DRAGON for my second camera. EPIC DRAGON is the better value of the two, if you can afford it. SCARLET DRAGON is good economy when you already have the EPIC bases covered and just need a little more coverage. I really value being able to pull digital stills from my video streams, and 6K really shines on that score.
 
like nostramdomous my projections are very vague..

nah I think MX will go down (or maybe even stop sales of new ones and only BT from now on, depends how long they wana continue selling MX in general?)...if not Dec 1st, at some point this seems inevitable that they will cease with MX and focus on Dragon...



Troy Bakewell said:
Brian

What exactly are you predicting here? That the price difference between Epic / Scarlet will increase?

FWIW, I recommend going Epic. Even at today's prices I think Epic is an all around better value. Prior to the huge price decrease way back when I think it was the other wat around, But today I would bite the bullet and and go Epic. :)
Click to expand...
 
Michael Tiemann said:
When faced with the same choice, I went with EPIC DRAGON for my first camera and SCARLET DRAGON for my second camera. EPIC DRAGON is the better value of the two, if you can afford it. SCARLET DRAGON is good economy when you already have the EPIC bases covered and just need a little more coverage. I really value being able to pull digital stills from my video streams, and 6K really shines on that score.
Click to expand...

When faced with the possibility of finally owning a Red Dragon, I went for 2 Epic Dragons because 6k/multi frame rates is what made me want the camera in the first place, and since I am in South America a lot I want backup cam as good as main cam, and I like to cross shoot, so needed two Epic Dragons.
 
Adam Montville said:
I have the Scarlet Dragon, and I'm never going to run it at 150fps at 2K. It looks.... Not the best. Epic will be able to handle that with ease, so anything above 80fps, Epic will be way better at slowmo.

At 24fps, Scarlet Dragon is everything I want it to be! However, I just shot in the woods today, shot some 10:1 30fps (slight slowmo), and the macro blocking was already starting to show up. Makes me want 6K 2:1, but the whole "money" thing gets rid of that idea. :P

I took a small part of an image to really show the differences between the REDCODE if used in a high detail area, such as woods.

8:1 next to 16:1, both 5K


side%20by%20side.jpg


And both of these are using A.D.D. and D.E.B.
Click to expand...
Yuck! I'm planning to get Scarlet Dragon, but that's disgusting, lol
 
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