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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Dragon, first impressions

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Cosmo D

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I just received my upgraded scarlet and I'm not disappointed at all. I was a bit worried about the compression but it's impressive. 5k 7:1 and 5:1 are almost identical to my eyes in difficult shadows. When there is enough light everything is super clean anyway, even 16:1 slowmotion (skintone olpf here). I will not hesitate to use 3k and 4k neither, it's sharp and clean too. The Scarlet MX was good, but I was always struggling a bit with colors, highlights, sharpness. Everything is so smooth with Dragon. It's like going from my 5D to my film 6x7 Mamiya 7. I dont' need to fight to get the right colors separation, the sharpness is there all over, the grain is sexy, you just point your camera toward anything and it's beautiful on the screen, then you open the files in RCX and everything is already there, colors, sharpness, you just want to play with the footage for hours. Another thing is that I felt frustrated sometimes with the Scarlet MX vs Epic. I'm not a huge fan of slowmotion but it's a nice bonus sometimes. The 22,1x11,6mm sensor was not a true s35 format. The sharpness was not always there at 4k without unsharp mask. Scarlet Dragon offers everything. I'm surprised but I don't feel the need for the Epic Dragon. My cards fills up so fast already @5k 7:1. Of course I tried 6k @4fps and it's crazy, but many Scarlet MX owners were hesitating between Red Epic, Scarlet Dragon and Epic Dragon, all I can say is that they should not be worried about getting the Scarlet D.
Some random shots, the first day, handheld, straight out of RCX, because there is not much footage from the Scarlet D around:
https://vimeo.com/117615082
Pass: dragon
 
from someone who has had every flavor of RED cam. The Scarlet Dragon would be my first choice over epic mx
 
Domenic Barbero said:
from someone who has had every flavor of RED cam. The Scarlet Dragon would be my first choice over epic mx
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If they just hadnt raised the upgrade price, i'd be more inclined to upgrade to dragon, but i'm not paying 3000$ more than I could have 2 months ago for it. Probably go Epic..
 
jake southard said:
If they just hadnt raised the upgrade price, i'd be more inclined to upgrade to dragon, but i'm not paying 3000$ more than I could have 2 months ago for it. Probably go Epic..
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Agreed...
 
I'm so glad I went for the scarlet dragon before the price hike but if I would have to choose today I would sell up and jump ship
 
Rather happy about my Scarlet Dragon upgrade as well. Still believe the new tech benefits are worth the extra cost of the upgrade after the price hike. A gorgeous camera all-around.
 
I have the skin tone OLPF, and find the color science a major step up from the mx sensor color sensor. Initially i wasn't so sold on the scarlet to dragon process, primarily from all the delays and problems on the roll out, but for me it has worked out way better then I expected. In hind sight all that fretting i was doing pondering the upgrade path on the scarlet was meaningless, dragon is just at a entirely new level. I am a perty fanatical believer on the skin tone OLPF and i have zero noise problems. Also 5k is plenty of sensors to get wonderful quadhd.
 
I'd recommend selling the Scarlet MX and buying a new Dragon Scarlet. I'd prefer a Dragon Scarlet to an Epic MX anyday. Just my opinion.
 
Scarlet-Dragon is phenomenal. Shadow retention, low-light noise, skin tones (with the new OLPF), are amazing and I am so happy I upgraded. It really comes down to the eye, preferences and user-friendly pricing, I suppose. The difference between upgrading to Dragon and or going with the standard Epic, are huge. Those who shoot with it can back me up. It's what all Scarlet users have been hoping for. (A 24fps 6k firmware upgrade wouldn't hurt, though. ;-)
 
No doubt Scarlet dragon is great, but epic mx is also amazing and offer many more options like reduced compression and higher frames per second. Also don't forget how many feature films have been shot with epic mx, still haven't seen a feature film shot with scarlet dragon. If it was the same price to upgrade I would get scarlet dragon.
 
Jacobo Martinez said:
No doubt Scarlet dragon is great, but epic mx is also amazing and offer many more options like reduced compression and higher frames per second. Also don't forget how many feature films have been shot with epic mx, still haven't seen a feature film shot with scarlet dragon. If it was the same price to upgrade I would get scarlet dragon.
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Well I don't think that anyone, for a serious feature, will rent an epic MX instead of an Epic Dragon anymore neither. And any feature shot with the Epic MX in the past would look better if shot with a Scarlet Dragon. The compression is improved on Dragon, and many famous features were cropped (Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Ender's Game, Hitchcok just used a 4k window in the image), Scarlet Dragon offers 5k 7:1 which is at least on par with the older 5:1 MX compression from what I see, and 4k 5:1. 75fps in 4k and 60fps in 5k is more than enough for 95% of these features where slow motion is non existant most of the time. Then there is better color, DR, better looking grain. Gone Girl was shot in 6k 5:1 but framed to 5K. I tested 5:1 vs 7:1 on Dragon, I didn't see the difference. You're probably right on the fact that serious features will use Epic Dragons, but if someone is interested in a better looking image I would say Scarlet Dragon is a better buy than Epic MX now. Of course someone who really needs the ultra slow motion (ie more than 60/75fps) should go for Epic. That's not really the case for features in general though.
 
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I feel like the big dogs look down on scarlets.. nobody wants a Scarlet as a B-cam even, they want another epic. even if its an MX. Maybe i'm wrong, i'm not sure. Does the Scarlet Dragon look better? Yes.. But does slow motion look good? yes, yes it does.
I'll probably end up selling the ScarletX and all the accessories I have to avoid paying an upgrade fee, and starting over with an EpicX brain..
 
I own an Epic Dragon and a Scarlet Dragon. I use the combination all the time. I used it also in VFX heavy shows like when I DP'ed the FL unit for "The Martian".
The Scarlet D is an excellent camera, much more capable than the MX version. Useful slomo and beautiful Dragon look. I would go Scarlet Dragon over Epic MX any time. Every time.
Honestly I think that RED should have named the Scarlet something different as still to this day some people still believe that it's a different sensor from the epic, smaller, less resolution. When I explain what it is people seem surprised and intrigued by it...
 
As a Scarlet Dragon owner since July I would say that I have been pretty happy overall with the camera. I will say that it is a bit touchy as far as switching to slow mo and having to load up a preset black shade with corresponding shutter - even in green/ yellow CAL it gets a bit noisy.

I haven't really met anyone else with a scarlet dragon, and I just wanted to share some footage (all skin tone OLPF): https://vimeo.com/111249175

**Question to other Scarlet Dragon owners or anyone who knows: What is the best work around for shooting anamorphic? I remember reading early on that RED was going to possibly offer a 4kAna setting on the scarlet dragon and I hope for it every firmware upgrade but nothing yet. Maybe there is an existing thread on this so feel free to direct me there if so.

___________________
Adam LaBrie
Cinematography
www.labriemedia.com
Scarlet Dragon #4868
 
Great work Adam. All Scarlet Dragon?
For slowmo i made some soft keys presets on the screen and a button assigned to the blackshade menu. It just takes 10 seconds max to shoot slowmotion.
 
Adam LaBrie said:
As a Scarlet Dragon owner since July I would say that I have been pretty happy overall with the camera. I will say that it is a bit touchy as far as switching to slow mo and having to load up a preset black shade with corresponding shutter - even in green/ yellow CAL it gets a bit noisy.

I haven't really met anyone else with a scarlet dragon, and I just wanted to share some footage (all skin tone OLPF): https://vimeo.com/111249175

**Question to other Scarlet Dragon owners or anyone who knows: What is the best work around for shooting anamorphic? I remember reading early on that RED was going to possibly offer a 4kAna setting on the scarlet dragon and I hope for it every firmware upgrade but nothing yet. Maybe there is an existing thread on this so feel free to direct me there if so.

___________________
Adam LaBrie
Cinematography
www.labriemedia.com
Scarlet Dragon #4868
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Adam that reel is SICK. Wow. Awesome job!!!!
 
Cosmo D said:
Great work Adam. All Scarlet Dragon?
For slowmo i made some soft keys presets on the screen and a button assigned to the blackshade menu. It just takes 10 seconds max to shoot slowmotion.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys!

Cosmo D - Are you using the side handle buttons for the different black shade settings? i will definitely have to try this because right now I'm still going though a few menu steps which is a hassle especially when shooting doc style work which i love to do on this thing!
 
Adam LaBrie said:
Thanks guys!

Cosmo D - Are you using the side handle buttons for the different black shade settings? i will definitely have to try this because right now I'm still going though a few menu steps which is a hassle especially when shooting doc style work which i love to do on this thing!
Click to expand...

I assigned one of the buttons of the SSD side to open the blackshade menu directly. Then I just choose the blackshade setting that I want. It's not "one button, one specific blackshade activated" but it's faster than going through the different menu steps to go there. That would be perfect if we can assign a specific blackshade in the touch screen soft keys. Just tap on the touch screen and shoot directly in 4k 75fps 180° blackshaded in one step.
 
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