Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Dragon - 6k - 24fps?

Jesse Conti

Jesse Conti

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
680
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Syracuse, NY
What are the chances of a potential S-Dragon firmware update that allows you to shoot not only 12fps burst, but at a mere 24-25fps? Even if it were to have a RC of 8:1-12:1, It could mean a ton... Yeah, it shoots 6k burst (great for pulling stills), but for usable motion capture it's not in the cards. So, I feel for it to be branded as a 6k tool, we should have the bare bones fps. Would RED see this as a serious loss or gain for the S-Dragons to Epic Dragons in the market, is it even a thought in the developers minds as a possibility in the foreseeable future? I feel like it's a pretty reasonable and worthy request... :-)

Any thoughts?
 
Extremely, extremely slim. If they could bump the 48 fps 5K to 50 fps, allowing HDRx at 25 fps, that would be awesome, from my point of view. I was hoping that the MX Scarlet would get 50 fps 3K FF or HD but that never happened.
 
Ryan Hamblin said:
why does everyone want more than what they asked for?
Click to expand...

I kind of agree with you. I'm just excited to shoot 5K, minimizing the size of grain, giving some very generous options to stabilize down to 4K, and gaining some very usable over-cranking options. I can't think of a project that I'd be working on where I'd actually need 6K, and if I did - I'd rent the body under the production budget. It's a beautiful looking camera either way.

I'm sure we'd always be interested in something more, but I feel like I'm getting my money's worth of an upgrade.
 
I see no reason why a firmware update couldn't enable 1Million FPS at 80K on the Scarlet Dragon + RED should send me a rebate cheque with the update.

It's just good business for them to do so - and if they don't!!!! I'll tell all 30 people who follow my Twitter account to buy another camera system...

/Sarcasm

In all seriousness - Not a week goes by where there isn't a post / thread where someone asks why their Scarlet can't do what an Epic does; while completely ignoring that a Scarlet costs half the price.

Scarlet has always been and will always be the little sister to Epic. RED needs to keep enough frame rates / features distant between them so Scarlet doesn't canabalise Epic sales.

End of.
 
There's a hack that allows 25fps on scarlet MX so who knows...
 
I must be really old cause Im living the dream with 4K and Scarlet :)
 
Andrew Gentle said:
Extremely, extremely slim. If they could bump the 48 fps 5K to 50 fps, allowing HDRx at 25 fps, that would be awesome, from my point of view. I was hoping that the MX Scarlet would get 50 fps 3K FF or HD but that never happened.
Click to expand...

6K not really needed, but the above would be great.
We need to have the people living in PAL countries happy as well!
 
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my S-Dragon and have no real complaints on it's functionality or performance. Dragon color and the new OLPFs are stunning. The ability to shoot 5k up to 60.92fps is fantastic. I was just trying to see if anyone felt that it was a possibility. Let's face it, who wouldn't love an extra thousand lines of resolution to play with...? With the E-Dragon shooting up to 100fps at 6k, I wouldn't think that shooting at 24-25fps on it's little sister would seriously threaten its quarterly sales... Again, not a complaint.. Just a question paired with my thoughts that I figured I'd share. Cheers!
 
For similar data rates to the scarlet dragon's current highest data rate formats (5k 8:1 24fps for example) you'd be shooting at 12:1 at 6k 25fps, or barely squeeze in 11:1 at 24fps.
 
Does anyone know the computational relationship between fps, compression and active sensor region? Does anyone know the hardware differences between Scarlet and Epic?

Perhaps it's just a software limitation. In which case it would be perfectly reasonable for RED to release a firmware update for 25fps at 6K along with a bill for 5K USD.
 
Brett Harrison said:
Does anyone know the computational relationship between fps, compression and active sensor region? Does anyone know the hardware differences between Scarlet and Epic?

Perhaps it's just a software limitation. In which case it would be perfectly reasonable for RED to release a firmware update for 25fps at 6K along with a bill for 5K USD.
Click to expand...

I've always understood the differences between Epic and Scarlet to be HARDWARE, not Software.

I believe RED has mentioned numerous times over the years the BOARDS are different.

One has more HP. One has less.

At least that's the way I understand it.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I've always understood the differences between Epic and Scarlet to be HARDWARE, not Software.

I believe RED has mentioned numerous times over the years the BOARDS are different.

One has more HP. One has less.

At least that's the way I understand it.
Click to expand...

That is my understanding also, Nick. My deadpan was set too high on this one.
 
Glen Powell said:
25fps in 5K?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it happened to other REDusers but he might be talking about the time my Scarlet #00746 glitched out on beta firmware and did that, up to 40fps actually at horrible compression ratios. It was very unstable and inconsistent, and RED patched it pretty instantaneously. I wouldn't call it a hack, as I didn't do anything to cause it, other than shutting the cam down accidentally during a firmware update -- Not recommended. There's a thread on it from around NAB time of course but I won't link because we don't need to start this discussion again. Jarred himself reached out at the time suggesting that it was not good for its hardware, not for prolonged recording, at least. Indeed, the camera ran extremely hot when this happened. I don't want to speak for him but I got the idea that RED had attempted to squeeze 5K/25 out of the Scarlet, but at the time they couldn't "safely" push the camera that far.

Regardless of the reasons, people asked for 5K 24fps on Scarlet-MX countless times and never got it, so you can count on not getting 6K 24fps on Scarlet Dragon. From the original game plan for Scarlet-D (unique sensor design, separate from Epic Dragon, that was to achieve 5K without cropping) to the current iteration (same Dragon sensor with less processing power, achieves 5K via center crop of 6K FOV), RED has never promised anything other than 5K max for Scarlet, so don't expect them to deliver it. Sure, it'd be great to have it, but as I learned firsthand in April, the cameras are designed to achieve the advertised specs and nothing more when it comes to processing power. While the Scarlet Dragon may be capable of squeezing out 24/25fps, it would require pushing the hardware to the very edge of its limits if its design is anything like the MX cameras. If you ask me, it's not practical. You may get 25fps burst at some point, but not sustained.

Also worth noting that Scarlet MX had a noticeably slower read/reset time than the Epic MX, making rolling shutter artifacts unusable when it glitched its way into 5K, just more evidence that the cam wasn't designed for those framerates. I don't know if this is still the case with Scarlet Dragon, or if they've matched the rolling shutter read/reset between the two cameras. I know it's pretty quick on Epic Dragon. Not Amira quick, but at least Alexa quick.


Just my opinion/speculation on the matter.
 
Someone got close but then bricked the camera upon unlocking. I'm sure Red would take it to court if it went public.

I totally agree with this thread, Scarlet always gets punked on resolution. Unfortunately this is nothing new its been happening since 2012 and I don't see it changing.

My guess is that if Scarlet did 6K @24 or MX version did 5K @24 then most people wouldn't buy an Epic? That seems to be the logic.

Personally I think it's bad to not run FF at speed, makes it hard for Scarlet users to get rentals since Epic always wins and its a complete waste of beautiful sensor technology. Scarlet can't even become a true B-CAM because of this.

I sold my Scarlet and currently saving up for an Epic, this being one of the reasons. If Scarlet-X MX went 5K 24fps I would have kept it.

Epic and Scarlet should work with each other not against one another.

this thread is nothing new, but I feel you guys on this one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top