Scarlet Brain + EOS lenses - questions

[Brett Kosmider]

Hey everyone, I'm putting together some long range plans (3-5 years) for my business and Im trying to nail down some numbers for 2010. I feel this question is safe in this forum considering there are no definite release dates, specs and prices regarding Scarlet, but we can all speculate? right? I mean thats why we're here, right?

So I read somewhere the Scarlet 2/3" Brain will take Canon EF lenses? Since the sensor is smaller than a full frame 35mm like the 5D, I can also assume that if I plan on using my EOS lenses from my 5D MKII kit the focal length of those lenses will be effectively increased when used with Scarlet 2/3"?

Also (again, dont shoot me Im new here) whats the latest estimate on delivery and price? Is it still "Summer/Fall 09" and $2500 for the 2/3" Scarlet Brain?

Thanks
-BK

 

[Brett Kosmider]

Nevermind, I think I'm picking up some of the info from other threads like this one. Im trying to figure out, whats the lens conversion factor on the S35 compared to a full-frame sensor? Is it more like an APS-C kind of conversion like 1.6x? My math is lousy.

At that price it will probably come down to RED Scarlet S35 vs. Canon 1Ds MKIV (Im just speculatin' all over the place)

-BK

 

[David Rasberry]

RED owns the high resolution (higher than 2MP HD) raw motion recording market at this point in time. If serious digital motion acquisition is a major part of your business plan, they are the only affordable game in town for now and for the near future.
No other manufacturer as announced plans for or released any 35mm format camera at any price that records full motion raw images at resolutions above 1080p.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

For FF35 lenses on a 2/3" sensor the field of view equivalent multiplier is around x3.5.

For FF35 lenses on an S35 sensor the field of view equivalent multiplier is around x1.3.

Jannard has said to expect a delivery date update around mid Oct. '09.

Does anyone have a good phrase to describe field of view equivalency multipliers? The concept is so confusing and takes like a 100 word sentence to describe. We need something like "the FVEM for S35 to FF35 is 1.3". Or is it FF35 to S35? My brain is going to explode.

 

[David Rasberry]

I posted an Excel spreadsheet in another thread that compares approximate angles of view (FOV) and crop factors for a specified lens focal length for several common film and digital formats from ff35mm to 1/3" video.

Here is link to the zip file.

http://reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=174&d=1245939825

You just enter a lens focal length in mm in the top field where indicated.

 

[Charles Angus]

For FF35 lenses on an S35 sensor the field of view equivalent multiplier is around x1.3.

Jannard has said to expect a delivery date update around mid Oct. '09.

Does anyone have a good phrase to describe field of view equivalency multipliers? The concept is so confusing and takes like a 100 word sentence to describe. We need something like "the FVEM for S35 to FF35 is 1.3". Or is it FF35 to S35? My brain is going to explode.

Got to disagree with you here. Using the horizontal field of view of standard S35, you get a crop factor of 1.5x, similar to an APS-C camera. Super-35 is a different aspect ratio, so comparing diagonal or vertical dimensions seems less relevant to me.

RED S35 could be as wide as 30mm (including look-around), based on published specs, which would yield a 1.2x crop factor.

Does anyone have a good phrase to describe field of view equivalency multipliers? The concept is so confusing and takes like a 100 word sentence to describe. We need something like "the FVEM for S35 to FF35 is 1.3". Or is it FF35 to S35? My brain is going to explode.

The crop factor, as it is generally called, tells you how much longer a lens looks on the smaller format. Crop factors always refer to FF35 as the larger format, unless specified otherwise.

So, to say that the crop factor of a 20d is 1.6x is to say that a 50mm on FF35 has the same FOV as a 31mm on the 20d.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Yeah there are so many factors to take into consideration and it seems everyone comes up with slightly different numbers. I don't think it makes sense to include the look-around area when calculating crop factor though. People want to know what the field of view they are recording will be.

I like "crop factor" btw.

 

[Brett Kosmider]

Great info and thanks for the insight on the crop factor. And I should clarify from my first and second posts - I was initially interested in the Scarlet 2/3" but after going, "duh!" lens conversion factor would be so great it would negate the use of those lenses anyway I looked at the S35 brain. I can live with 1.2x. 3.5x is a little crazy for my world and makes no sense to use 35mm lenses with the Scarlet 2/3" brain unless you want a reallly long shot. I use a 70-200 on my 5D that would make it a 245-700 on the 2/3" Scarlet! Wait a minute... That might come in handy as that kind of lens from Canon is like $6000...

 

[David Rasberry]

Great info and thanks for the insight on the cop factor. And I should clarify from my first and second posts - I was initially interested in the Scarlet 2/3" but after going, "duh!" lens conversion factor would be so great it would negate the use of those lenses anyway I looked at the S35 brain. I can live with 1.2x. 3.5x is a little crazy for my world and makes no sense to use 35mm lenses with the Scarlet 2/3" brain unless you want a reallly long shot. I use a 70-200 on my 5D that would make it a 245-700 on the 2/3" Scarlet! Wait a minute... That might come in handy as that kind of lens from Canon is like $6000...

The other problem with 35mm still lenses on 2/3" is that most resolve at best around 60-80 lp/mm. Scarlet 2/3" needs higher resolution, 120lp/mm or better, 16mm or 2/3" native format lenses for best performance. Most 35mm still lenses will be comparatively soft.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

The other problem with 35mm still lenses on 2/3" is that most resolve at best around 60-80 lp/mm. Scarlet 2/3" needs higher resolution, 120lp/mm or better, 16mm or 2/3" native format lenses for best performance. Most 35mm still lenses will be comparatively soft.

I've heard this a lot recently. If you crop an FF35 image to 3k it wouldn't be any sharper then the same 35mm lens on the Scarlet right? You are saying lenses designed for 3k will be much sharper at 3k.

The reason I ask is most people I talk to this about are delivering in 1080p. Are FF35 lenses still gonna look soft once you downrez? My guess is it will be hard to tell the difference sharpness wise between lenses designed for 3k and FF35 lenses once you've gone out to 1080p.

 

[David Rasberry]

I've heard this a lot recently. If you crop an FF35 image to 3k it wouldn't be any sharper then the same 35mm lens on the Scarlet right? You are saying lenses designed for 3k will be much sharper at 3k.

The reason I ask is most people I talk to this about are delivering in 1080p. Are FF35 lenses still gonna look soft once you downrez? My guess is it will be hard to tell the difference sharpness wise between lenses designed for 3k and FF35 lenses once you've gone out to 1080p.

It's not the pixel resolution, but optical resolution for image size. The cropped area of a premium 35mm lense that could resolve 2000 lines over the 24mm image height an ff35 frame would only resolve about 450 lines on a 2/3" sensor.

 

[Ryan B]

Delivery Update around mid October...?!

Delivery Update around mid October...?!

Jannard has said to expect a delivery date update around mid Oct. '09.

Is this fact...can you point me to where he said this...?! I really want to get a scarlet for a project mid Nov/Dec. This would be perfect timing...!

Ryanb.

 

[Scott Crawley]

What he said Ryan, was to expect an announcement in Oct. He didn't say that Oct would be the release date. I'm looking, but I forget where he said it.

 

[Shane Nassiri]

He never said October. He said not to expect any announcements for a couple of months, which if taken literally would be mid-October. But it's all variable.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Here is Jim's quote from August 10th:

We have said that much of the delivery dates rely on a successful ASIC spin. We have also indicated that we are not going to rush to release given market conditions and the overwhelming opinion of our customers to put out a finished product and not a prototype. I wouldn't expect any type of update for a couple of months. The schedule should be more clear by then...

Jim

Jim always says the only thing you can count on is dates and specs changing but this is the latest estimate we have.

 

[Ryan B]

Here is Jim's quote from August 10th:



Jim always says the only thing you can count on is dates and specs changing but this is the latest estimate we have.

Thanks for looking it up...
Ryanb.