Scarlet and Steadicam?

[Terry VerHaar]

There is also no FF, no filters, no video transmitter. Those are all things that will be on any camera used for an actual shoot.

Nick

Not sure I'd want/need a transmitter as I am talking about indie level films here - not Hollywood. Which also dictates, to a large degree, different budget constraints than on a "big time" set.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

There are a few details which give a true Steadicam an edge over the competition, IMO. Patents on the original basic design have expired, but some of the nice little refinements along the way are still patent protected.

I believe one of those patents is the iso-elastic arm. This allows you to boom the arm up and down 28 inches (the Pilot and Merlin arm) and get the same excellent stability anywhere in that range, rather than just at the very centre on most other arms.
And in my experience, very few arms match the performance of the recent iso-elastic Steadicam arms. The single-section arms especially perform quite poorly by comparison.

Other niceties:
-Sleds are designed for easy balance adjustment, and can be dynamically balanced.
-The Pilot and Zephyr allow the addition of counterweights to increase/adjust inertia.
-Camera stages that allow fine adjustment just by turning a knob, no locking and unlocking needed.
-The socket block is an adjustable connection so you don't end up leaning at an awkward angle that eventually becomes painful and injurious to keep the sled at the proper distance from your body.
-The gimbal is sublime.

My personal experience was working with a Glidecam owned by someone else, and trying out the Varizoom Aviator.
Once I tried the Pilot, however, it was the clear decision. I also chose that over the Merlin vest & arm for a few of the little niceties of adjustability with that sled, and the fact that the skills I would be practising would transfer over to the larger Steadicams as the design was essentially the same.
Once he had a chance to try it out, the Glidecam owner I knew immediately ordered a Pilot for himself.

Hopefully, the fixed-lens Scarlet will fit perfectly in the Pilot's weight range!

One last thing: I took the 2-day Flyer workshop, and I would highly recommend that as something you should do before or very shortly after you get a Steadicam, before you form any bad habits that you'll need to break later on.
Bad habits can degrade the quality of your footage, and can lead to injury... I have a colleague who borrowed a Steadicam, and with no experience, failed to set it up properly and hurt his back quite severely.
At the very least, read through Jerry Holway's Steadicam Operator's Handbook.

Thanks for commenting, Stephen. Very helpful!! Great advice all around.

 

[Zac C]

It has been my understanding all along (but I might be wrong) that you will be able to pull focus with the Redmote and without any external FF device. It seems that there has been much made of the fact that the electronic lens mounts and lenses (including the fixed) made this possible, along with zooming and changing aperture (although I am less sure about the latter one).

Am I dreaming?

Electronic Lenses, RED, Nikon and Canon will be able to be controlled and focused with the redmote/redmotePro

He was saying with Manual, none electronic

 

[Terry VerHaar]

There are no modules on that rig, just the brain, redmote, Bomb EVF, handgrip and lens

I guess I was considering Redmote, EVF, top handle and handgrip as "modules." Seems you could pull the Redmote off-board and lose the EVF, top handle and handgrip altogether, unless the handgrip held the battery. I wonder if a battery module would be lighter?

And if you were trying to get the rig on a Merlin, I guess you'd need an LCD. But, with a Pilot, the monitor would be off-board as well.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Electronic Lenses, RED, Nikon and Canon will be able to be controlled and focused with the redmote/redmotePro

He was saying with Manual, none electronic

I've seen MANY manual lens that have no electronics that have built in gearing, like such:

http://therearehymnsweshout.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ultra_prime_lens_85mm.jpg

I see a definite market for an electronic drive from red that can control manual lenses. It need not have a knob on it, as you could use the redmote or redmote pro. Then, the brain could even perform focusing as well with the touch interface.

That sort of integration I would think would be VERY welcome to those with lots of manual lens.

 

[Zac C]

I've seen MANY manual lens that have no electronics that have built in gearing, like such:

http://therearehymnsweshout.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ultra_prime_lens_85mm.jpg

I see a definite market for an electronic drive from red that can control manual lenses. It need not have a knob on it, as you could use the redmote or redmote pro. Then, the brain could even perform focusing as well with the touch interface.

That sort of integration I would think would be VERY welcome to those with lots of manual lens.

Hey Rick,

I wasn't talking about .8mm pitch gearing around the lens.

I missed the part in your post about the external focus on the lens.... I thought you were asking about pulling focus on a manual lens somehow through the mount...

 

[Rick Burnett]

Ahhhh! Yeah, no! Haha. But somehow taking an electronic follow focus drive and interfacing it with the brain. I wonder if with their API, through the ethernet port, if there is provisions for adding this. Although I'd prefer a red solution. Could be really cool.

 

[Mike Brent]

Terry, you should look into Glidecam X-10 and Glidecam HD-4000:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udxJUCzbjYA

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8956

 

[Rob Ruffo]

This wouldn't be possible without something stuck onto the Focus Ring, thus Every other WFF has that domain, RED need not to enter the Wireless follow focus arena

But it could work with SLR lenses, the way Birger mount does. Still, you cannot fiddle with focus while operating Steadicam. Too much to concentrate on at once you would need someone else.

 

[Zac C]

But it could work with SLR lenses, the way Birger mount does. Still, you cannot fiddle with focus while operating Steadicam. Too much to concentrate on at once you would need someone else.

Are you meaning pulling focus like the Birger mount would change aperture? those are two completely different organisms.

You can't pull focus through a mount unless the mount and the lens attached are both electronic.

RED will be making electronic mounts for RED, Canon, and Nikon lenses, so if you have a Canon FOS EF mount lens, you can control aperture, and focus with the redmote.

 

[soren k jensen]

beg to differ

beg to differ

But it could work with SLR lenses, the way Birger mount does. Still, you cannot fiddle with focus while operating Steadicam. Too much to concentrate on at once you would need someone else.

Sorry to disagree, but I have been pulling focus on my Flyer with Panasonic HVX200's and HPX171's for years now, using a wired varizoom remote. Not really a problem, only a matter of practice and experience. Don't be afraid, but be willing to spend time practicing. And I am not only talking about very deep DOF and wide lenses, it can be done zoomed in as well. Again, practice.

 

[thomas-english]

I am looking forward to flying these little things but remember: Before the RED was released there were lots of photos of people putting them on flyers. The reality is that I regularly turn up on RED jobs and the camera kitted out weighs heavier then an ARRI-LT. I will be interested to see how light these things actually turn out to be.

With regards to manufacturers. At the low-end of the market Tiffen/Steadicam dominate in quality to price point. They make very nicely made rigs. At the top end their new Ultra2 is now a fantastic rig but there are other manufacturers that also make rigs many people prefer. Like MK-V, GPI-PRO or XCS. These are all great rigs. Unless your going to spend 20,000 then get a Tiffen.

 

[Rick Burnett]

In my case, I know I am going to run light so that really changes my options. I want to run the Fixed AS is, no other attachments, for steadicam work.

I've read A LOT of reviews of all the lower end stuff. I agree that it seems Tiffen/Steadicam definitely dominate that realm in quality. For me, that's just more than I want to spend for the amount of time I will use it. This is why I've shied away from the straight bar, offset handle models as I do not want a vest. (But they ARE necessary in my opinion when you get a lot kitted out, NO question). And I've not read one good review of the arm braces.

That left me with the Merlin or the Blackbird. Both sub $1k, but out of all the reviews I've read, and videos I've seen, I think the Blackbird really seems to do better, in most situations.

That said, when tilting up or down with the steadicam rigs, the straight bars seem to do a better job.

But, we'll see, I just found out it will cost me $53 to rent the blackbird all weekend and I'm heading to the Cape Fear film festival to try it out.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am looking forward to flying these little things but remember: Before the RED was released there were lots of photos of people putting them on flyers. The reality is that I regularly turn up on RED jobs and the camera kitted out weighs heavier then an ARRI-LT. I will be interested to see how light these things actually turn out to be.

With regards to manufacturers. At the low-end of the market Tiffen/Steadicam dominate in quality to price point. They make very nicely made rigs. At the top end their new Ultra2 is now a fantastic rig but there are other manufacturers that also make rigs many people prefer. Like MK-V, GPI-PRO or XCS. These are all great rigs. Unless your going to spend 20,000 then get a Tiffen.

Thanks, for the input. I know that I won't be spending $20K on a stabilizer rig any time soon! But I will eagerly check out you other suggestions.

I am drawn toward a Pilot at the low end if, as it turns out, the Scarlet can slide in under that 10 pound limit. I am somewhat hopeful it will be possible to trim a Scarlet down enough to make it.

Also, I am sort of biased toward the quality and reputation of Steadicam/Tiffen. But that is also very much at the higher end of my budget so if it ends up requiring a Flyer I guess it's back to the drawing board.

 

[Mike Brent]

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5-_MM2F7A&feature=related

What more do you need exactly?

 

[Tom.Wong]

with the modularity, u could get away with essentially just a brain and lens on it. redmote clipped to your belt, monitor on the bottom, no EVF since you won't really be looking through it, and u could probably figure out a excellent way of wireless follow focus. Even REDROCK is making one u can control with your iphone. Think of bandpro's LEICA PRIMES. 2.8 pounds a lens, throughout.... you are look at possibly 5-6 lbs total. (don't know weight of epic or scarlet brain)

 

[soren k jensen]

used

used

Used Tiffen Steadicams are often good value for money, check steadicamforum.com. And they resell at OK prices later. (Possible contradiction, hinging on the meaning of 'OK', I know)...

 

[Terry VerHaar]

with the modularity, u could get away with essentially just a brain and lens on it. redmote clipped to your belt, monitor on the bottom, no EVF since you won't really be looking through it, and u could probably figure out a excellent way of wireless follow focus. Even REDROCK is making one u can control with your iphone. Think of bandpro's LEICA PRIMES. 2.8 pounds a lens, throughout.... you are look at possibly 5-6 lbs total. (don't know weight of epic or scarlet brain)

Yes. This has been my line of thinking... hoping to strip the weight down to the bare essentials. I guess it will be hard to know exactly until we know the weights and the various modules. I am planning on buying the fixed lens Scarlet version to start, so that may present some weight challenges. I'd love to be able to keep it below 7.5 pounds and maybe use the Merlin with vest. Otherwise, if it can stay below 10, I could go Pilot.

 

[Zac C]

Go Nikons or Canons when you need to shoot Scarlet on a Steadicam Pilot, once you move to the flyer, then get some cinema lenses...

Its awkward your thinking, why would you spend $3-5K for a lens, but only $3k for the support of it, that support being made only to hold 10pounds.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5-_MM2F7A&feature=related

What more do you need exactly?

Pretty nice footage but, in a way, all the high speed action makes the effect of the stabilizer less apparent. Also, the shooter is on wheels (as opposed to walking or running) which, of course, makes his/her motion smoother in relation to the ground surface. The test for me is in very smooth and slow circular pans around an individual or an object. Or, walking (slowly or quickly) in front of or behind an actor or actors in motion and having it look as much like a dolly as possible. That's the kind of stuff I would likely shoot with a stabilizer.