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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and Dragon...

Just being honest, I started to read this thread but was a bit taken aback that anyone would suggest limiting the performance of the Scarlet as a business strategy. I don't see how doing less then the best for customers or clients can be advantageous in such a economically stressed and competitive market. My strategy in business is always to put your best foot forward. Jump higher, not lower the bar.

However the comment made me realized that as a Scarlet user new to digital film...all I'm in it for is 4K.
The budget for Dragon or Scarlets being more than $6K on an Epic doesn't appeal to me at all. Not saying it's not valid, especially with more parts has to be changed so it can handle the chip.
I can't see paying over 6K unless it was 120fps at 4K with great lowlight because I am already very happy with what I have.
I wanted 4K and I have it. Thanks RED.
 
Alonzo Von Threet said:
Just being honest, I started to read this thread but was a bit taken aback that anyone would suggest limiting the performance of the Scarlet as a business strategy. I don't see how doing less then the best for customers or clients can be advantageous in such a economically stressed and competitive market. My strategy in business is always to put your best foot forward. Jump higher, not lower the bar.

However the comment made me realized that as a Scarlet user new to digital film...all I'm in it for is 4K.
The budget for Dragon or Scarlets being more than $6K on an Epic doesn't appeal to me at all. Not saying it's not valid, especially with more parts has to be changed so it can handle the chip.
I can't see paying over 6K unless it was 120fps at 4K with great lowlight because I am already very happy with what I have.
I wanted 4K and I have it. Thanks RED.
Click to expand...

Technically, you don't have 4K....read some more :) Good that you're happy though, so am I!
 
As cheap as Epic's gotten, I'm just not convinced Scarlet is a good value now. Maybe for the new Dragon generation brains you should actually take Scarlet down-, instead of up-, market? Stills only? 6K continuous at 1-2fps, 5K a bit more, still have 5K 12fps as a 24-36 frame RAM buffer "burst mode"? Move 24fps motion down to 3K?
 
Alonzo Von Threet said:
Just being honest, I started to read this thread but was a bit taken aback that anyone would suggest limiting the performance of the Scarlet as a business strategy. I don't see how doing less then the best for customers or clients can be advantageous in such a economically stressed and competitive market. My strategy in business is always to put your best foot forward. Jump higher, not lower the bar.

However the comment made me realized that as a Scarlet user new to digital film...all I'm in it for is 4K.
The budget for Dragon or Scarlets being more than $6K on an Epic doesn't appeal to me at all. Not saying it's not valid, especially with more parts has to be changed so it can handle the chip.
I can't see paying over 6K unless it was 120fps at 4K with great lowlight because I am already very happy with what I have.
I wanted 4K and I have it. Thanks RED.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with that biz strategy. Ask Intel. You are buying a product that is subsidized by customers that need or want the latest and greatest. Just accept it and be happy!
 
Matthew Scott said:
Technically, you don't have 4K....read some more :) Good that you're happy though, so am I!
Click to expand...

Arguable - depending on your definitions. Of course, you have 4K pixels. Agreed that it doesn't "resolve" to 4K on charts. The real question is, does it look good delivered at 4K?
 
Lee Saxon said:
As cheap as Epic's gotten, I'm just not convinced Scarlet is a good value now. Maybe for the new Dragon generation brains you should actually take Scarlet down-, instead of up-, market? Stills only? 6K continuous at 1-2fps, 5K a bit more, still have 5K 12fps as a 24-36 frame RAM buffer "burst mode"? Move 24fps motion down to 3K?
Click to expand...

So I send my Scarlet in to get "dumbed down?" LOL
 
All I wan't is better cleaner low light. I could care about anything else, maybe 5K 24p would be nice. But all I really want is for my Scarlet to be the same low light performance as all the other cameras now. I have very noisy blacks in low light. I would love a native RAW sensor ISO of 800 or more (its currently around 400 or so)

If that would be the case, I'd be very happy. I also don't want MORE pixels with more data just to shoot S35 as I already have. I want to keep my 4K in s35... If I have to shoot 5K just to get S35, thats taxing on data and cards.
 
Joesef o. said:
All I wan't is better cleaner low light. I could care about anything else, maybe 5K 24p would be nice. But all I really want is for my Scarlet to be the same low light performance as all the other cameras now. I have very noisy blacks in low light. I would love a native RAW sensor ISO of 800 or more (its currently around 400 or so)

If that would be the case, I'd be very happy. I also don't want MORE pixels with more data just to shoot S35 as I already have. I want to keep my 4K in s35... If I have to shoot 5K just to get S35, thats taxing on data and cards.
Click to expand...


I want ... I want ... I want ... So many things you want. Want are you offering in return? Lol.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
So I send my Scarlet in to get "dumbed down?" LOL
Click to expand...

Probably not!

Jarred posted a few pages back, "...There becomes a point where you need to change so many boards that it doesn't financially make sense anymore for either of us. In Scarlet it's not just a swap of the ASIC and the Sensor, it is memory, IO boards, and a bunch of other things that make it different from an Epic..."

Sounds to me like a Scarlet upgrade to Dragon isn't a sure thing. Scarlet users may end up stepping up to Epic Dragon with something similar to the "stage" program that Red One users got.

So what happens to the Scarlet after that? That's where my suggestion comes in. No sense letting a perfectly good brand name go to waste, right? And I can't be the only one that would kill for a pro-level interchangeable-mount, AF-with-non-manufacturer-lenses, still camera. Mirrorless native-mount-plus-clunky-adapters plastic toys like the Sony NEX are a total drag.
 
James Falco said:
I want ... I want ... I want ... So many things you want. Want are you offering in return? Lol.
Click to expand...

Money. Also continuation as a customer as opposed to investing in a different camera system. Good word of mouth marketing to colleagues and friends. A post ecosystem where people are experienced in your particular image and file formats. etc.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Money. Also continuation as a customer as opposed to investing in a different camera system. Good word of mouth marketing to colleagues and friends. A post ecosystem where people are experienced in your particular image and file formats. etc.
Click to expand...


Money will come and it will go, thats why they call it cash flow.


Going on a demand rant about what everybody wants, that mostly is derived by whats already out there in one form or an other does not really offer any real insight.


The problem with opinions is, that everybody has one. The thing most people lack is vision.
Demanding things as a camera feature that are foreseeably about to happen are not exactly expanding anybodies intellectual horizon.


Really, asking of a better low light, less noise, bigger sensor higher frame rate.
Is really anybody expecting or demanding the opposite? Is anybody really worried that RED won't come out with a bigger better sensor, or not try to push frame rates?

///
 
Lee Saxon said:
Sounds to me like a Scarlet upgrade to Dragon isn't a sure thing. Scarlet users may end up stepping up to Epic Dragon with something similar to the "stage" program that Red One users got.
Click to expand...

Personally I hope they don't employ a stage approach. Initially (when the Dragon was a straight upgrade), I thought that I could plan/budget/save and upgrade when I was ready. With a stage approach I either get in quick and early, or miss out.

I hope the upgrade path, whatever form that should take, will not have a window of opportunity that can be exploited to those with the desposable cash - and shut on those who budget and save in advance.
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
Personally I hope they don't employ a stage approach. Initially (when the Dragon was a straight upgrade), I thought that I could plan/budget/save and upgrade when I was ready. With a stage approach I either get in quick and early, or miss out.

I hope the upgrade path, whatever form that should take, will not have a window of opportunity that can be exploited to those with the desposable cash - and shut on those who budget and save in advance.
Click to expand...

+ 1
 
I hope the upgrade path, whatever form that should take, will not have a window of opportunity that can be exploited to those with the desposable cash - and shut on those who budget and save in advance.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head stuff here.

+1
 
Just scrap the upgrade and introduce a new model with dragon and trade in, sell the trade in to rental companies, then tell everybody, if you want the best buy a new one. I don't regard scarlet image to be what I want for the price, a dragon model seems more future proof for me. If people think that paying as much for an upgrade as you can get trading in your camera for a new one is sensible....
 
People question why limit the Scarlet, because people would stop buying many Epic's and there would be too slim profit margins on the Scarlet. Because Red has gone it alone with custom sensor and asci circuits etc, they have a lot lot more cost to cover than a $348 4/3rds still camera at these volumes. You are getting what is paid for. Of course, also nobody (oem suppliers or competitors) can tell them what to do, restrict the sensor or way it is used, restrict supply of parts etc, this is the alternative market.
 
I am completely satisfied with the 4k at 24 or 30. when I need higher frame rate I would bring in my buddy or hire to shoot specific higher frame shots. Ofcourse Epic is for the Elite and because of the high price they pay there reward should be higher considering you can pick up a scarlet brain for $6000 on the net these days. It all comes down to the competition and what they might come out with. Red has already taken a bath because of it. There will be a remedy to acknowledge everyone and make whole.
 
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