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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and Dragon...

Lliam Worthington said:
Carlos we can't "know", but I'm pretty sure Scarlet Dragon won't have the same specs as an Epic Dragon, and if it does it would have to cost the same or even more, being 17K +. But in which case you'd be much better off buying an Epic Dragon and not having to wait as long...
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I'd suspect the Scarlet Dragon would sit a similar sort of relitve postion to the Epic Dragon as the scarlet does to the Epic now. The only issue with this is it makes the line odd with the existance of non Dragon epics.
 
I'll probably stick to an MX Epic. Currently the 6k is way out of range for me in all conceivable ways?

Otoh, I have yet to find the current Epic very limiting....
 
As a Scarlet owner the most attractive points to me are the 16 stops of latitude and the reduced noise floor. I'm not even sure what 4K even looks like, yet 6K. The killer advantage would be to have higher frame rates than at the moment at 4K, which would bring the Scarlet closer to an EPIC with a Misterium-X.
 
Thank you for the update Jim.

Something to think about.... considering the timeline RED has hinted at for when the new sensor will actually be going into EPIC's (sometime around NAB is my guess) and that Scarlet will be upgraded after that you are probably looking at 6 months from now. That's an awful lot of time to make up whatever the price difference is between the $6,000 for EPIC's Dragon and however more the Scarlet's will be.
 
Enrique Blein said:
As a Scarlet owner the most attractive points to me are the 16 stops of latitude and the reduced noise floor. I'm not even sure what 4K even looks like, yet 6K. The killer advantage would be to have higher frame rates than at the moment at 4K, which would bring the Scarlet closer to an EPIC with a Misterium-X.
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REDray makes me think 5k 24p for 4k delivery would be nice. The DR and noise floor is a huge deal too. 4k speeds that allow HDRx turned on with useable frame rates would be nice, though natural dynamic range makes that less of an advantage.
 
yeah in my current situation I really can't spend more than $7k, six months ago I was all concerned about specs LOL

Most investors who decided to go the Red route have agreed on average its 1 Year & 1/2 -3/4 payback, so by the time I finish paying all my accessories it'll be time to upgrade bodies very little time for a "profit" grace period.

Mark brings up a good point why not sell your Scarlet and pay the difference for an Epic; if Scarlet-D upgrade will be more than $12k? I totally like that route it seems like the best way you'll get 96fps at 5K which Scarlet Dragon probably wont have which really sucks and you don't have to wait! Again I really dont wanna pay over $7k so thats outta the picture.

I'm probably gonna hold on to my Scarlet until I can flip it pay $7k extra and get into an Epic-MX.

My dream world...

$7K Upgrade
96fps Hi-Res

thats all I ask for
 
Enrique Blein said:
As a Scarlet owner the most attractive points to me are the 16 stops of latitude and the reduced noise floor. I'm not even sure what 4K even looks like, yet 6K. The killer advantage would be to have higher frame rates than at the moment at 4K, which would bring the Scarlet closer to an EPIC with a Misterium-X.
Click to expand...

Yeah high framerates could be a big deal, especially with Sony's F5 supporting 120fps at 2k without windowing in the same price range. I sure hope RED introduces new ways of being able to use lower resolutions while still using large areas of the sensor. For example even if they have to do 1-line skipping/binning (Sony is probably doing this as well for their high frame rates, just like in the FS700) so they can offer 3k 120fps in a sensor area that is the same as 6k, that could be extremely useful. Half-sensor 3k 120fps in Scarlet-dragon could compete with the F5's 2k 120fps, but some people might be turned off by losing so much FOV. A 3k line skipped mode might even be really useful for a lot of projects that just dont need or cant handle the data and resolution of 5-6k. It would be great for doc/eng people who just need 1080p and want to make their redmags last 4x as long...
 
How about an option to upgrade the Scarlet MX brain to an EPIC Dragon brain? That would be my ideal path if it were available.
 
The scarlet should and i hope will stay in 4k but have more frame rate. it needs to be the best 4k camera available. if you want more resolution etc.. then yeah go Epic. Scarlet is a machine on 4k. It should stay this way but with more frame rates options with the dragon
 
Jason Rudd said:
How about an option to upgrade the Scarlet MX brain to an EPIC Dragon brain? That would be my ideal path if it were available.
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Seems like that would be a worthwhile option for some, as long as you don't mind paying the difference which would be at least $17k... And that's assuming RED doesn't mind paying you the value of a NEW Scarlet for your USED Scarlet. That's gotta be a tough business plan to keep up. They did that with R1 but that's probably because they needed to live up to their obsolescence obsolete slogan when R1's were getting EOL'd, I wouldn't get too used to that...

A $17k+ upgrade for a $10k camera probably won't be an option for most Scarlet owners.
 
Pascal Payant said:
The scarlet should and i hope will stay in 4k but have more frame rate. it needs to be the best 4k camera available. if you want more resolution etc.. then yeah go Epic. Scarlet is a machine on 4k. It should stay this way but with more frame rates options with the dragon
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This is what I mean, I would quite happily do the upgrade to Dragon if for Scarlet-owners the improvement would come in better DR, HDRx options, noise floor and frame rates, at the expenditure of keeping the system 4K.
 
Thanks for thinking of us. When the upgrade becomes available I will decide wether to upgrade my Scarlet at that point, or not. Speculating is fun, but nothing I can get too worked up about. I would prefer to keep my Scarlet and get a Epic Dragon when I can afford it. Likely the price will drop in a year anyway. If the Scarlet upgrade give high enough frame rates, I might re-think it then. While I love all the improvements the Dragon will be bringing, I most look forward to being able to do higher frame rates.
 
Pascal Payant said:
The scarlet should and i hope will stay in 4k but have more frame rate. it needs to be the best 4k camera available. if you want more resolution etc.. then yeah go Epic. Scarlet is a machine on 4k. It should stay this way but with more frame rates options with the dragon
Click to expand...
If its to be a 4k camera RED say it needs to be greater than 4k to achieve that.......
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Yeah high framerates could be a big deal, especially with Sony's F5 supporting 120fps at 2k without windowing in the same price range. I sure hope RED introduces new ways of being able to use lower resolutions while still using large areas of the sensor. For example even if they have to do 1-line skipping/binning (Sony is probably doing this as well for their high frame rates, just like in the FS700) so they can offer 3k 120fps in a sensor area that is the same as 6k, that could be extremely useful. Half-sensor 3k 120fps in Scarlet-dragon could compete with the F5's 2k 120fps, but some people might be turned off by losing so much FOV. A 3k line skipped mode might even be really useful for a lot of projects that just dont need or cant handle the data and resolution of 5-6k. It would be great for doc/eng people who just need 1080p and want to make their redmags last 4x as long...
Click to expand...

yes this factor has me using a FS700 this week....
 
Mark Toia said:
With the price of the EPIC so low now... Why would you even worry about Scarlet sensor upgrade. Just move up to EPIC and get the whole enchilada.

Keep them cheap and simple I say.
Make a pocket Scarlet, discontinue this one.


My two cents worth.
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I agree with this sentiment. And I'm a Scarlet owner. I would just prefer an upgrade path to Epic. When you're putting together a camera kit you're looking at $30k. The With a $9k price difference (probably less after the Dragon upgrade if it's more expensive for Scarlet) you're looking at about a 20% price difference between the two but 1/10th the frame rate. Economically speaking it just makes sense to spend the extra 20% and get 1000% more features. Epic is a lot better bang for your buck today after the price drop. I say offer a $12k Dragon upgrade to people who bought before October, $14k for everyone else and focus on 4k for Scarlet in some fashion that drops the price even further.

I really hope whatever happens Scarlet people can shoot 6k. Not for the resolution but for the FOV. I'm not terribly happy with my lens options for Canon that are on the wide side of things.

Where I would like to see Scarlet go is *lighter*. It's light for a cinema camera but it's literally as heavy as a brick which makes lightweight DSLR style shooting challenging on the back and arms. Epic can keep the resolution race trucking on. Scarlet can focus on size.
 
I'm a new Scarlet owner and am pretty interested to see how the Scarlet-D compares to the Epic-x in price and spec. I wonder if they would ever transition into selling only a single brain and users pick a sensor at various price points. That would kill the Scarlet's reduced price point / reduced functionality model.

That said, I'd love to be able to shoot 5K at 24-30fps.
 
Carlos Reyes said:
Other than the grey finish I see no reason to have to have two dragons, although that would probably piss off epic owners if the upgrade price is similar. I would rather the price be somewhat higher and wait a little longer to save up the extra cash to get the full featured dragon than go through the whole process of upgrading and then at the end of the day still have those moments where you wish your scarlet was an epic.
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Agreed, although I don't see any justification for Epic customers being angry. Scarlet customers are paying more for less in the case of the Dragon upgrade. Jim just said the Scarlet upgrade would cost more than the Epic upgrade. Epic customers are paying $6k for 6k and 96 fps. Scarlet customers are paying $6k+ for ???.

Unhappy Epic customers should be reminded that the original Scarlet-S35 specs were 48fps 5k. We ended up with 12fps 5k for more than the original price. It's not like Scarlet was some dark horse that emerged out of nowhere. If anything the Epic had an even larger feature advantage than the original plan.
 
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