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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCARLET 2/3 + 35mm Adapter (Letus etc...)

Michael T. said:
DOF Adapter is not answer, but Interchangeable lens mount is.

I know you all have been thinking about price, but in the End I think it would add up to be about the same price.

So just do it right and spend a little more at once to have it all, instead of a little here and a little there to build FrankinStein.

Scarlet Brain + Lens Mount "like Canon" will do it "DOF" just fine for low budgets people.

Michael T.
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A Scarlet Cinema package will be a bit more expensive than the fixed for sure. With used premium quality 16mm lenses and the mounts and hardware to support them, my estimate for my own full up practical field package, not including sound, lighting, or tripod, is pushing $15k with the bare bones minimum config running around $8k before lenses.
 
I will be getting the Cinema 2/3 package also. I will be going with some red mini primes if not all of them depending how well they preform, which I am sure they will and probably a used cooke zoom a month or so down the road from purchase. I will also will be floating around the 15k mark. I will probably be going with the redmote pro for the follow focus reasons, and also need a matte box for nd filters. I still haven't figured out which media I will be going with. I will need the media that will support the 120fps/150fps burst and I would also like to be able to shoot redcode 100 when necessary. I hope a reddrive will handle some of that, if not I am sure the ssd module will. I guess we dont know which redcode will be supporting the higher frame rates?
 
I think wanting to choose various lenses is not just about depth of field. Besides the ability to vary depth of field, the ability to change apparent perspective is an important aspect of being able to choose prime lenses that are long or wide. A long lens can compress perspective making a busy street scene seem more kinetic and a wide lens would do the opposite making a city street scene seem more desolate as background objects would appear further in the background than with a long lens. So maybe a fixed Scarlet with an adapter could be useful in that way.
 
How about 2/3 Fixed kit plus a S35 brain; use the modules from the 2/3 to shoot on the S35, then you essentially have two cameras working - S35 for 24fps 5K work, and a nice little 3K 120fps cam. That's what I'm planning to do.

Gotta love that modular idea, eh?
 
Matthew Blight said:
How about 2/3 Fixed kit plus a S35 brain; use the modules from the 2/3 to shoot on the S35, then you essentially have two cameras working - S35 for 24fps 5K work, and a nice little 3K 120fps cam. That's what I'm planning to do.

Gotta love that modular idea, eh?
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not a bad plan. i have been pondering the 2/3" fixed with my redrock m2 as well. i want the flexibilty of the fixed lens for run and gun work but i would like to have the option of setting up the redrock for some shallow depth of field from time to time.
 
J Davis said:
Currently I think most of the DOF adapters are made to focus down to a 1/3rd inch sensor. I would be interested to see if someone makes a quality DOF adapter
specifically for the 2/3 sensors and at the correct flange distance for the 2/3 interchangeable brain.
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The P&S Technik Pro-35 adaptor was made for 2/3" cameras:

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/digitalfilm-pro35-converter.php

Personally, I think there will always be artifacts & resolution loss from rephotographing an image off of a groundglass screen, plus it's an extra thing in front of the camera and one more thing to go wrong, so you really have to believe that you need that extra 2.5-stops of less depth of field.

2/3" movies like "Zodiac" and "Benjamin Button" have shown that shooting wide-open on some good 2/3" optics gives you a shallow-enough focus most of the time unless you are forced to shoot close shots with wide-angle lenses in small rooms.
 
Jimmy Odom said:
That being said, unfortunately we have ABSOLUTELY no knowledg on the S35's eventual release. I mean we've received tentative dates for release on the Epic, and 2/3rds format Scarlets but NO word one on the S35. Which kinda concerns me, as to its position in release.
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There won't surely come in 2010 :-(

It was easy to get it after the RED Day in Rome, last February.
 
When you take into account their light loss, noise, chromatic aberration optical distortion and poor ergonomics, then add in the fact that they're a pain to set up and work with, I think it's fair to say 35mm adapters have had their day.

A set of mini primes on a 2/3rd Scarlet looks a much better option as does a set of stills lenses on a S35 Scarlet.
 
Sean Finnegan said:
Getting that extra little bit of depth of field by using an adapter is absolutely not worth the 1-1.5 stops of light you lose, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that the price comparisons have used the fixed Scarlet for reference. The fixed starts at T2.6, so you're at the equivalent of about T4 even without the additional lens. You'll need more light or have to rate the EI higher to compensate.
 
Matthew Blight said:
How about 2/3 Fixed kit plus a S35 brain; use the modules from the 2/3 to shoot on the S35, then you essentially have two cameras working - S35 for 24fps 5K work, and a nice little 3K 120fps cam. That's what I'm planning to do.

Gotta love that modular idea, eh?
Click to expand...
Definitely a possibility.

2/3" Fixed Scarlet package - $4750
S35 Scarlet brain - $7000
TOTAL - $11750

Not bad for two cameras. And if you want, you can always sell the 2/3" Scarlet brain with lens and keep all the other accessories for the S35.
 
Jaime Vallés said:
Well, you'll have to buy the good lens regardless of whether you pick the S35 Scarlet or the 2/3" Scarlet with a 35mm DoF adapter, so there's no price difference.
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The totals I was replying to were:
Jaime Vallés said:
S35 Scarlet brain - $7000
CF module - $500
2.8" LCD - $900
Side handle w/battery - $950
TOTAL - $9350

VS

2/3" Fixed Scarlet package - $4750
35mm DoF adapter - $1500 more or less
TOTAL - Around $6250
Click to expand...
The fixed Scarlet has a fixed lens...
 
Terry VerHaar said:
EDIT: Oh, I see - you didn't include it in either equation.
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Exactly. You have to buy the lens if you want 35mm DoF with either Scarlet camera. Otherwise, you're just shooting with the 2/3" Fixed Scarlet's stock lens, which doesn't have the shallow DoF that the person in the original post is after.
 
Chris Luker said:
The 2/3" fixed lens should have a good bit of dof to play around with anyways as others have pointed out. At least I hope so...
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Without a doubt! A lot of people are worrying needlessly over the ability to achieve shallow depth of field with the 2/3" Scarlet.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
... unless you are forced to shoot close shots with wide-angle lenses in small rooms.
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That one made me smile because I'm a film maker living in New York. :smile5:

Is it a rare situation in narrative that you would need dof narrower than the 2/3 sensor can provide?
Do you ever shoot more open than 5.6 on super 35 film?

I think its important to consider that most 2/3 film makers will be making projects on fairly tight budgets. I see it already with the number of people
considering placing 35mm still lenses on the 2/3 interchangeable despite the extreme 3.75 crop factor. I can see situations where film makers will turn to
a dof adapter purely because an s35 rental is out of their budget and maybe they are just dying to try out their still glass on a red mx sensor.

My limited experience has been 12 or so projects over the last year with aps-c at f5.6+ so I am hoping I have a good handle on 2/3 shooting.
So far I have only had a need for narrow dof on one project and in that situation I went as far as f2 on a fifty.

So I ask myself. If that were a scarlet on that job, would we have rented an s35? Or rented a dof adapter for a 2/3 interchangeable? Or turned to a vDSLR?
It was a tight budget job. Options are good I think.
 
Low-budgets haven't stopped filmmakers from shooting on 2/3" cameras already.

The only issue is whether at T/2.0, which is typically the widest most 2/3" zooms open to, is shallow enough for you -- it's the equivalent of shooting 35mm at an f/4.0-5.6 split. I shot eight features on the F900, four of them with budgets under $500,000, and all of them on 2/3" zooms.

It's not the end of the world. Just because someone has a big-budget doesn't mean that they aren't subject to the laws of DoF when it comes to 2/3" anyway, so take a look at 2/3" movies and decide if they have too much depth of field for you.

Besides, you can make the argument that a super-shallow focus look is actually less practical for a low-budget filmmaker with a short schedule working fast in low light levels with inexperienced focus-pullers, and that the depth of field of a Super-16 and 2/3" camera is actually the low-budget filmmaker's friend.
 
All of the things you are saying are true and I already understand them which is why I wrote that I'm at 5.6+ on aps-c.

I also understand that 2/3 dof is a film makers friend and I already deliberately storyboard so I don't have to pull focus.
None of those 12 projects had a budget of more than 7 grand, camera crew consisted of me and two others if I was lucky.

I admire you and your work David and I aspire to one day operate at your level. Also I don't advocate the use of dof adapters.
All I'm saying is that options are good. One more tool in the tool kit and I think it is inevitable that someone is going to do it - put a dof adapter on a 2/3 interchangeable.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
The P&S Technik Pro-35 adaptor was made for 2/3" cameras:

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/digitalfilm-pro35-converter.php
Click to expand...

By the way, thank you for this link, I hope I'm never in the situation where I must resort to using it.


Just to summarize, and since most of us scarlet hopefuls are on 7d's

2/3 with mini prime at T1.5 equivalent to asp-c at f3.3
2/3 fixed wide open at f2.4 T2.5 equivalent to asp-c at f5.6

So if you are on a sub 10k budget indi film and you have a shot planned at f2.8
(I dunno, some candlelight romance where actors can't move) then neither scarlet 2/3 can do it.
So you're options are

1) vDSLR like 7d, 2ti, 5dm2 and put up with moire and aliasing
2) hvx200 and dof adapter
3) interchangeable 2/3 and dof adapter
4) rent a scarlet s35

Did I miss anything? Please let me know if the math is wrong or I forgot something
 
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