SCARLET 1080 with Higher Frame Rates

[Carlos Reyes]

I would sell it, except RED did this crazy thing and lowered the price of their cameras, that made everyone who bought their camera before that lose some of it's equity. Thanks RED. Plus I own a bunch of RED specific accessories, so I'll sell my SCARLET body for pennies on the dollar and fork over more $ for an EPIC, cause I still can't afford an ALEXA (best camera) and the C300 is too limited and I can do the same job on my MARK 3.

What is it exactly that you do? DP? Camera OP? Looks like you're trying to sell clients on a piece of equipment and not your skill set, vision, style etc.

Your images should convince your clients, and there is no camera in Scarlet's price point that can deliver the quality that is does, (we'll see how the F5 does).

Build a solid reel and your clients wont fight you on the camera because they'll want what you're offering, and if they want to fight you on the camera they can fork over the extra cash for a C300/Alexa/whatever else rental. Or after one job you can buy a hyperdeck and be done with it.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

You are telling me that the RED system is infallible? There are zero things you think it could better? That is the "kool-aid," because like I said, no camera is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

I just don't think what you are saying here has anything to do with "making it better."

 

[Shane Duckworth]

What is it exactly that you do? DP? Camera OP? Looks like you're trying to sell clients on a piece of equipment and not your skill set, vision, style etc.

Your images should convince your clients, and there is no camera in Scarlet's price point that can deliver the quality that is does, (we'll see how the F5 does).

Build a solid reel and your clients wont fight you on the camera because they'll want what you're offering, and if they want to fight you on the camera they can fork over the extra cash for a C300/Alexa/whatever else rental. Or after one job you can buy a hyperdeck and be done with it.

My reel is very solid, which is why I shoot with just about everything but my SCARLET. It's limited. It's a fact. But good try to steer the conversation away from the faults about a camera system and attack a stranger. Did you design the SCARLET? Why are you taking this so personally? It's a flawed system. It just isn't what it could be, and you are okay with that.

http://www.brooklynmovieworks.tv

It's got EPIC, ALEXA, 7D, SCARLET and FILM. See if you can guess what was shot on what?

 

[Shane Duckworth]

I just don't think what you are saying here has anything to do with "making it better."

How would having usable, smaller files (like say ProRes) not make it better? Or give me higher frame rates at 4k. How about 48fps? Even that would make a huge difference!

 

[Paul Schneider]

I get that most people on here have already drunk the Kool-Aid. So I'm ranting against deaf ears, but this forum should be full of constructive criticism for RED by the people who use it weekly in real world situations, instead of everybody stroking RED's ego. There are faults with every camera out there, but this REDUSER, so I'm focusing on RED's faults and trying to see if anybody feels the same way. Which in this thread, they don't. Nothing to do about that. But yes, 30k later, I'm a little bitter, angry and disappointed, but I'm invested in RED and I'll rant to the walls until they hear me and hopefully change.

Your suggestion is a viable one, but its to far from the edicts from which the company was founded to likely ever become a reality. Perhaps a prores module would solve the issue, if of course it doesn't cost the price of a car, which it might.

 

[Shane Duckworth]

Your suggestion is a viable one, but its to far from the edicts from which the company was founded to likely ever become a reality. Perhaps a prores module would solve the issue, if of course it doesn't cost the price of a car, which it might.

Thanks.

 

[Carlos Reyes]

My reel is very solid, which is why I shoot with just about everything but my SCARLET. It's limited. It's a fact. But good try to steer the conversation away from the faults about a camera system and attack a stranger. Did you design the SCARLET? Why are you taking this so personally? It's a flawed system. It just isn't what it could be, and you are okay with that.

http://www.brooklynmovieworks.tv

It's got EPIC, ALEXA, 7D, SCARLET and FILM. See if you can guess what was shot on what?

You're bitter and taking my words the wrong way. I'm not attacking you sorry if it came off that way. I did not design the scarlet but I own one and it has offered me much success in a market similar to yours.

4K RAW for the price of a C300, yeah I'm ok with that.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

How would having usable, smaller files (like say ProRes) not make it better? Or give me higher frame rates at 4k. How about 48fps? Even that would make a huge difference!

We are full circle here... you can have smaller (ProRes) files any time you want with the current Scarlet - use RCX.

Yes, I'd love 48 fps at 4K - that's a subject that has been beaten to death and with the current Scarlet electronics, that just can't happen. Get an Epic.

Do I want line skipping? No. That's not "better."

Do I want a RED camera that doesn't shoot raw? No. That's not "better."

Having RED waste time on every idle request that comes around? No. That's not "better."

Anything else? :smiley:

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

For any camera:
The mores options the better. Period. I don't think there is any more to say than that.

 

[Shane Duckworth]

We are full circle here... you can have smaller (ProRes) files any time you want with the current Scarlet - use RCX.

Yes, I'd love 48 fps at 4K - that's a subject that has been beaten to death and with the current Scarlet electronics, that just can't happen. Get an Epic.

Do I want a RED camera that doesn't shoot raw? No. That's not "better."

Having RED waste time on every idle request that comes around? No. That's not "better."

Anything else? :smiley:

Yes, I know. Get an EPIC, better, but not "better" for SCARLET.
RCX is an option, but not "better," = extra step of post.
Never said anything about a RED not shooting RAW, just with an option not to. RAW is not always better. Sometime faster and simpler is "better."
I don't think this 1080 thing is an idle request. There is a plethora of other posts and threads on this forum asking and demanding the same things I am. RED has even talked about it and is currently working on not one but, two modules to accommodate these "idle requests."
I'm glad the SCARLET is working great for you and you have paid it off with all the work it gets you. I have a difference experience and I am not alone.

 

[Paul Schneider]

I just don't think what you are saying here has anything to do with "making it better."

Shane's suggestion would not make the camera better for you perhaps, but it most certainly would increase & maintain the value of the camera. It would be used and rented quite a bit more and would allow it to have a much longer life before retirement.

In US commercials, producers decide what cameras get used...and they (mostly) consider 4K an annoying trait that costs them extra money to convert. Yes its disheartening, but its the truth.

 

[Shane Duckworth]

For any camera:
The mores options the better. Period. I don't think there is any more to say than that.

YES. Thank you

 

[Paul Schneider]

For any camera:
The mores options the better. Period. I don't think there is any more to say than that.

yep.

 

[David Dominguez]

how wouldn't Shane's suggestion better the camera? of course it would!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Well, if 4K is an "annoying trait," you are using the wrong camera.

 

[Shane Duckworth]

Shane's suggestion would not make the camera better for you perhaps, but it most certainly would increase & maintain the value of the camera. It would be used and rented quite a bit more and would allow it to have a much longer life before retirement.

In US commercials, producers decide what cameras get used...and they (mostly) consider 4K an annoying trait that costs them extra money to convert. Yes its disheartening, but its the truth.

Finally some camaraderie and acknowledgement. Thank you Paul. My bitter rantings seem to have struck a cord with some die hard fans. Thank for put some perspective into this thread. I am done. I know the pit falls of this system and bitching on this forum will do nothing to fix them.

 

[Paul Schneider]

Well, if 4K is an "annoying trait," you are using the wrong camera.

Of course, but with all due respect what you may be missing here is that it doesnt matter to the folks actually choosing the camera.

Producers, by and large do not think about 4K, RAW or amazing color science....ever.
They think money and time, and at least in the commercial world they are the ones to rent (and largely choose) the cameras. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to change.

I think Alexa rules commercial shooting 10-1 for couple reasons:

1. the HD prores is cheap and easy
2. The crews are used to (and enjoy) the simplicity of the cameras.

Red could take minor and relatively easy steps to address both of these issues and potentially make their cameras more viable in the process. Whats not to like about that?

 

[Shane Duckworth]

Of course, but with all due respect what you may be missing here is that it doesnt matter to the folks actually choosing the camera.

Producers, by and large do not think about 4K, RAW or amazing color science....ever.
They think money and time, and at least in the commercial world they are the ones to rent (and largely choose) the cameras. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to change.

I think Alexa rules commercial shooting 10-1 for couple reasons:

1. the HD prores is cheap and easy
2. The crews are used to (and enjoy) the simplicity of the cameras.

Red could take minor and relatively easy steps to address both of these issues and potentially make their cameras more viable in the process. Whats not to like about that?

Paul, I like your style.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

though none of this is news to any of us or shouldn't be. We knew the fact sheet before we bought into the system, it's up to you, not red to figure out if it will work within your style of work.

Are you making sense on some posts yes you are, but will they happen, can they? doubt it, it could, but I doubt in the manner you are expecting.

As has been stated at this point your options are sell and buy something that suits you better. Buy and external recorder. or convince your clients to accept a 4k raw workflow and down sample to 1080 for final delivery. Or wait it out until the mini proxy module is released and yes red has confirmed it is happening and apparently around may 30....now who knows what will happen but that is what we have been told by Jarred... last time I checked. Sorry long day on my feet can't look it up...

All seems fairly simple to me no need to argue over anything really.

I don't understand all the anger these day's... I'm just happy to be alive!

Have a good one and take er easy!

 

[Paul Schneider]

though none of this is news to any of us or shouldn't be. We knew the fact sheet before we bought into the system, it's up to you, not red to figure out if it will work within your style of work.

Are you making sense on some posts yes you are, but will they happen, can they? doubt it, it could, but I doubt in the manner you are expecting.

As has been stated at this point your options are sell and buy something that suits you better. Buy and external recorder. or convince your clients to accept a 4k raw workflow and down sample to 1080 for final delivery. Or wait it out until the mini proxy module is released and yes red has confirmed it is happening and apparently around may 30....now who knows what will happen but that is what we have been told by Jarred... last time I checked. Sorry long day on my feet can't look it up...

All seems fairly simple to me no need to argue over anything really.

I don't understand all the anger these day's... I'm just happy to be alive!

Have a good one and take er easy!

Cheers to that.