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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCARLET 1080 with Higher Frame Rates

Terry VerHaar said:
Well, first, if my work was the same as yours, I'd do the Epic thing ASAP. Personally, I think the Dragon trade-in for Scarlet will cost about as much as buying an Epic and then upgrading it. That much just seems like rational thinking. Background - I have contended from the outset that RED never promised two levels of Dragon. Some thought there'd be Scarlet Dragon and Epic Dragon; RED never promised that. So, it is logical that to end up with (Epic) Dragon, you have to pay what it takes to get Epic, then do the upgrade). And, from what you said, with Dragon some time away, you'd probably make back your investment before Dragon is even available.

As far as the "hit" on a private sale, don't forget that RED also cut the price of the Epic by way more than the drop in Scarlet. A definite win for new Epic purchasers.

Personally, I would never move away from a raw workflow so that part of the discussion is simply gibberish to me. It's not hard, it's not painful, it's very flexible and powerful, and the results are too spectacular to ignore. I'd opt for educating my clients but, as people here on RU know, I can be pretty stubborn. :001_smile:

EDIT: One last thing - Epic will do your high frame rates at any rez, which is what your original post suggested you are seeking.
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Oh yes, I have to bite the bullet and get an EPIC. I just wish I didn't have you spend the extra 10,000. I still contest that a SCARLET with RAW and 1080 potential would be so much more viable. Also, I don't get why everybody is fighting me on this. I'm not saying to take away the RAW, just add the 1080 without the sensor crop, so I can use my regular lenses and not extra wide nonsense or s16 glass. What is so offensive about a camera with more options? That fits with more workflows?
 
I don't think folks are against 1080P without crop as much as they are saying it just can't happen. The technology needed (software/hardware) just isn't there and not likely to come from RED. Personally, I would rather that RED didn't spend time and resources on this as it would take away from developing other things that I'd rather see. That's my only argument "against."

And, yes, lots of folks have brought this up.
 
Shane Duckworth said:
I'm not the only one who thinks this. Checkout this thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?95930-Are-You-Guys-Kidding
Even, EPIC owners are begging for ProRes/HDNDx files, too. It's what the market wants. Not what RED believes the market should want.
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And it's coming. 2 different modules, one adds it and a lot more but is very expensive, the other cheaper bu only features known are pro res proxies.

Should have it been earlier, yes, but there are a number of 3rd party solutions that make a scarlet/epic still a fairly compact system with RAW and prores (one at a time or both at the same time), and still leaves a scarlet in roughly C300 sort of money and much cheaper than an Alexia.

Even if pro res was built into the scarlet for much of the work where its losing jobs at the moment to a C300 it still would, in many cases its shortcomings in such jobs compared to the c300 are actually elsewhere (the fan noise for example). Hell the loss of the 4k ability to reframe/punch in is the Scarlett's one trump card in some of them and that's lost with pro res.

When picking a camera consider all the options, and look at the work you are doing and want to do. Pick the one that fits your work best and hire if another would be noticeably better for a job.

Great cameras that REDs are there are many jobs that others would be a better choice, there are a number of great cameras out there.

i'm holding out for the cheaper RED prores/proxy module features and pricing to make a decision on whether it or a 3rd party would be better. (Likelihood is if my budgets approaching meizler money epic and dragons coming first).
 
Bob Gundu said:
Hi Shane. I'm guessing you haven't had much experience around the RED cameras or workflow. It's actually not complicated at all. You can't have downscaled footage and have RAW. It just isn't possible with any camera. If you want 1080 scaled down, just use an external recorder.
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Doesn't the F55 do downscaled 2K raw which isn't windowed from the 4k raw frame?
 
Shane Duckworth said:
I'm not the only one who thinks this. Checkout this thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?95930-Are-You-Guys-Kidding
Even, EPIC owners are begging for ProRes/HDNDx files, too. It's what the market wants. Not what RED believes the market should want.
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Oh and Shane, whenever you are about to press that button on your keyboard to confirm you want to post an ad to sell your Scarlet, take a look at this film shot with it, by fellow Reduser Alberto Saiz. Beautiful stuff!

http://vimeo.com/56120730
 
Antonio Ribeiro said:
Oh and Shane, whenever you are about to press that button on your keyboard to confirm you want to post an ad to sell your Scarlet, take a look at this film shot with it, by fellow Reduser Alberto Saiz. Beautiful stuff!

http://vimeo.com/56120730
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Listen, I've shot with my SCARLET, EPICs, ALEXAs, C300 and film. You can get great images from all of these cameras. I'm talking pure dollar for dollar usefulness in a commercial market, dealing with production and post production company work flows. What makes my job easier, their job easier and gets my camera out there, instead of renting another system.
 
Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
And it's coming. 2 different modules, one adds it and a lot more but is very expensive, the other cheaper bu only features known are pro res proxies.

Should have it been earlier, yes, but there are a number of 3rd party solutions that make a scarlet/epic still a fairly compact system with RAW and prores (one at a time or both at the same time), and still leaves a scarlet in roughly C300 sort of money and much cheaper than an Alexia.

Even if pro res was built into the scarlet for much of the work where its losing jobs at the moment to a C300 it still would, in many cases its shortcomings in such jobs compared to the c300 are actually elsewhere (the fan noise for example). Hell the loss of the 4k ability to reframe/punch in is the Scarlett's one trump card in some of them and that's lost with pro res.

When picking a camera consider all the options, and look at the work you are doing and want to do. Pick the one that fits your work best and hire if another would be noticeably better for a job.

Great cameras that REDs are there are many jobs that others would be a better choice, there are a number of great cameras out there.

i'm holding out for the cheaper RED prores/proxy module features and pricing to make a decision on whether it or a 3rd party would be better. (Likelihood is if my budgets approaching meizler money epic and dragons coming first).
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I've read about the MEIZER, and all it's glory, but it costs more than my SCARLET. So in a world where the SCARLET is losing to C300s, doubling the rental cost isn't going to help. This "OTHER" module only seems to be a rumor. Can anyone send me a link of a picture or a statement from RED? I suppose we might see something at NAB, but we saw talk of DRAGON and MEIZER last year at NAB and both are still not out. I can't wait another year.

And yes, the 4k punch in is a selling point, one that I've used, but i'm often met with the fact that EPIC is capable of such things and has the frame rates, too. So in a market flowed with EPICs, the SCARLET loses again, cause rent house are giving huge deals to productions cause their EPICs are sitting on the shelves.
 
Shane - I think we get it: you are angry/bitter/disappointed and nothing anyone says can make you like your Scarlet. RED has disappointed you. Life is a bear. What can we do to help? :huh:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Shane - I think we get it: you are angry/bitter/disappointed and nothing anyone says can make you like your Scarlet. RED has disappointed you. Life is a bear. What can we do to help? :huh:
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I get that most people on here have already drunk the Kool-Aid. So I'm ranting against deaf ears, but this forum should be full of constructive criticism for RED by the people who use it weekly in real world situations, instead of everybody stroking RED's ego. There are faults with every camera out there, but this REDUSER, so I'm focusing on RED's faults and trying to see if anybody feels the same way. Which in this thread, they don't. Nothing to do about that. But yes, 30k later, I'm a little bitter, angry and disappointed, but I'm invested in RED and I'll rant to the walls until they hear me and hopefully change.
 
I had the same issue, so i bought a ki pro mini. problem solved. Why doesn't that solution work for you?

Nick
 
Shane Duckworth said:
why not dress it down a bit and have it compete with the camera it was released to compete with, the C300.
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I think this is where you're mistaken Shane. Yes in a sense they are direct competition because of price point, but although Canon puts the C300 in their "cinema" line its really a camera that has found its success in low to mid budget commercial work, doc work, corporate video, event coverage etc. Not movies/cinema whatever you want to call it.

Scarlet is marketed as a digital cinema camera, and it is optimized for that. That said it works in all the over shooting environments if you can figure out the workflow.

Also you said you were thinking to update to Epic to fix this problem but that wont do you much good because it's still outputting R3Ds.

Anyway, as other have mentioned its really a cheap fix: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...esign_HYPERD_PT2_HyperDeck_Shuttle_2_SSD.html

Best of luck!
 
I don't have a bottomless pit of money, but rather a bottomless money pit called my SCARLET. So yes I will get a secondary recorder for my 4k digital cinema camera that with all the gadgets to make it a usable camera package was very expensive...
 
If you dont have a bottomless pit of money, maybe you should have done a little more research before spending so much money on your bottomless money pit. Sell it buy a C300 and move on.
 
Why is it "kool aid" if it simply works for what some of us do? If it didn't, I would get something else.

If it doesn't work for you, you should get something else. I like it the way it is, you don't. Does that make your input more valuable - so RED can figure out how to change things that caused many of us to buy the product in the first place?
 
Carlos Reyes said:
I think this is where you're mistaken Shane. Yes in a sense they are direct competition because of price point, but although Canon puts the C300 in their "cinema" line its really a camera that has found its success in low to mid budget commercial work, doc work, corporate video, event coverage etc. Not movies/cinema whatever you want to call it.

Scarlet is marketed as a digital cinema camera, and it is optimized for that. That said it works in all the over shooting environments if you can figure out the workflow.

Also you said you were thinking to update to Epic to fix this problem but that wont do you much good because it's still outputting R3Ds.

Anyway, as other have mentioned its really a cheap fix: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...esign_HYPERD_PT2_HyperDeck_Shuttle_2_SSD.html

Best of luck!
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Yes, Carlos the C300 has found a place in the low to mid budget commercial work, which is where I thought the SCARLET would fit as well. Which is where I make a living. Dress it up, dress it down. That was my train of thought. And when selling a R3D file based camera system, with the extra steps that R3D requires to deal with in post, that R3D camera better have everything, i.e. EPIC. Because as soon as a production has to deal with 4 or 5k, they don't want to hear about 3 and 2k for slow mo. It would be nice if it just did 1080 and when you need 4k, it does that, too.

Yeah, hyperdeck or pix it shall be. Thanks.
 
Carlos Reyes said:
If you dont have a bottomless pit of money, maybe you should have done a little more research before spending so much money on your bottomless money pit. Sell it buy a C300 and move on.
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I would sell it, except RED did this crazy thing and lowered the price of their cameras, that made everyone who bought their camera before that lose some of it's equity. Thanks RED. Plus I own a bunch of RED specific accessories, so I'll sell my SCARLET body for pennies on the dollar and fork over more $ for an EPIC, cause I still can't afford an ALEXA (best camera) and the C300 is too limited and I can do the same job on my MARK 3.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Why is it "kool aid" if it simply works for what some of us do? If it didn't, I would get something else.

If it doesn't work for you, you should get something else. I like it the way it is, you don't. Does that make your input more valuable - so RED can figure out how to change things that caused many of us to buy the product in the first place?
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You are telling me that the RED system is infallible? There are zero things you think it could better? That is the "kool-aid," because like I said, no camera is perfect. There is always room for improvement.
 
I feel bad for you, Shane. After a mere 22 posts, you've dropped yourself into the deepest funk possible about how impossible the market is for a RED user. What's the use in trying? :violin:

If others start to pay attention, I expect the price of all used RED equipment to drop precipitously from here on out.
 
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