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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scaled 1080p

Tony Lorentzen

Tony Lorentzen

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Hi all,

I don't seem to remember this clearly, but will the Epic allow us to shoot directly to scaled 1080p?
 
As far as I remember: Nope, not internally, but the SDI tap is 3g (dual on one tap) if I understood Jarred right, and should be capable of delivering 10bit RedLogFilm...

No exact answer as to whether that tap is half or full debayer, though.
 
Aren't they supposed to implement and internally recorded scaled 1080p RGB format at some point? It's not in the early builds, but it has been included in the specs.
 
Yes - 1080p scaled recording was in the specs (http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/30/red-dsmc-specs-detailed-prices-start-at-28-000-for-epix-x-low/) in the beginning - just as it was for the R1. But everything is subject to change, so I thought I'd ask. However - we may have to wait for a module that does exactly that; hopefully it'll record to ProResHQ and not H264 like the previously announced proxy module. Direct-to-edit is big reason why people are choosing to shoot the Alexa so it would be nice if that wasn't an issue with the Epic.
 
I asked Ted in Sydney a few weeks ago and he said very much yes to full sensor scaled to 1080 in camera.

Not working yet but still planning to include it.

I'm looking forward to this.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
Yes - 1080p scaled recording was in the specs (http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/30/red-dsmc-specs-detailed-prices-start-at-28-000-for-epix-x-low/) in the beginning - just as it was for the R1. But everything is subject to change, so I thought I'd ask. However - we may have to wait for a module that does exactly that; hopefully it'll record to ProResHQ and not H264 like the previously announced proxy module. Direct-to-edit is big reason why people are choosing to shoot the Alexa so it would be nice if that wasn't an issue with the Epic.
Click to expand...

If it did Avid DNxHD selectable compression too, in the same module, that would be a killer!
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
Direct-to-edit is big reason why people are choosing to shoot the Alexa
Click to expand...

Really? Saving a few hours of conversion is worth DOUBLE the price? I'm not saying wanting direct-to-edit isn't valid, but DOUBLE, man. DOUBLE.

That's like wanting a 3 series but deciding you have to get an M5 because the electronic top speed limiter is set 5 MPH higher.
 
Lee Saxon said:
Really? Saving a few hours of conversion is worth DOUBLE the price? I'm not saying wanting direct-to-edit isn't valid, but DOUBLE, man. DOUBLE.

That's like wanting a 3 series but deciding you have to get an M5 because the electronic top speed limiter is set 5 MPH higher.
Click to expand...

Yes, really. And typically they rent the camera. With all the other shoot costs, the camera rental price difference is negligible.
 
I seem to remember there being some discussion of a possible Pro-Res module in development (what's the word on this?) & would/could this module do 4:4:4:4 in Red Log Film ?
 
Lee Saxon said:
Really? Saving a few hours of conversion is worth DOUBLE the price? I'm not saying wanting direct-to-edit isn't valid, but DOUBLE, man. DOUBLE.

That's like wanting a 3 series but deciding you have to get an M5 because the electronic top speed limiter is set 5 MPH higher.
Click to expand...

An editor I work with says that shooting Alexa vs. 4K RED saves production $2K in post on the average 30-second commercial.

And NOTHING beats an M3. :?)
 
Lee Saxon said:
Really? Saving a few hours of conversion is worth DOUBLE the price? I'm not saying wanting direct-to-edit isn't valid, but DOUBLE, man. DOUBLE.

That's like wanting a 3 series but deciding you have to get an M5 because the electronic top speed limiter is set 5 MPH higher.
Click to expand...

But the M5 is a lot more epic than a 330i for example =)
Accelerates faster , sounds way better and looks nicer >>
 
Max Fischer said:
An editor I work with says that shooting Alexa vs. 4K RED saves production $2K in post on the average 30-second commercial.
:?)
Click to expand...

Unless your post house charges extra because they demand dnxhd deliverables from the Alexa, oh and they need to be corrected from log on set for dailies. Yeah, I can think of at least one house that requires that.
 
Stacey Spears said:
Jim posted a response to a similar question in the Q&A thread. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?55892-Epic-Q-amp-A&p=744747&viewfull=1#post744747
Click to expand...

So is that a 'Yes, but not yet'?

I'd love to have this in Scarlet though - I do some event stuff, and transcoding hours of REDCODE would be annoying at best (especially if you have two or more cameras)... How would the file size compare though? Obviously 1080p is many times less resolution than 5K, and still a lot less than 3K, but REDCODE has the advantage of only having one channel to compress...
 
Scarlet has an HDMI out that I assume will be the same as Epic's HDMI out: 10 bit 4:2:2, 1080 or 720, with audio (from Epic manual p. 130).
You could record from this to an Atomos Ninja (or other) which converts to ProRes HQ, 422, or LT. From Atomos's specs, HQ takes 100GB per hour of record time. Nice because you could still have RAW files at least for the interesting parts.
Or if you want to record to on-board media, at much greater media cost, Scarlet specs have always included scaled 1080.

Scarlet does not have HDSDI out, though Epic does. The last specs for the Base I/O module included an HD-SDI out, though that module was not on display at NAB so is apparently down the road a bit, after the Pro I/O. Atomos (and others) also make recorders that take HD-SDI, though apparently the Atomos Samurai still only records up to 10 bit 4:2:2. At least for now, the Epic HD-SDI is 10 bit 4:2:2. I don't know if 4:4:4 will be enabled later on the brain, though I assume it will be available on the I/O modules (otherwise why have HDSDI)?

Corrections welcome.
 
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Here in Copenhagen the Alexa rents for about 200usd more than a RED1 MX. And Direct to edit is very a very good "producer argument."

"edit:" - in response to the alexa stated as being twice as expensive to rent.
 
The major TV pilot I worked on just did pretty much the exact same dailies workflow as a red show we did for the same production company last year. Only difference was log c correction from Alexa instead of raw from R1MX.

And they charge by hours of dailies (at least at thus lab) , not for time to compress them.

Also, a major production costs about $500/minute, so even a $2000 savings is negligible.

Tim
 
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