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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Say I like crushed blacks. . .

Stephen Pruitt said:
Thanks to Marc, here is a snap. It's a PNG file. This shot is not crushed at all, but it is dark, which is just the way I wanted this scene. Comments always appreciated, of course.
Click to expand...
You can display the shot here using the "insert image" controls within the forum software:

tyleroffice_zpsd05f7612.png

I would rather see a little texture in the suit without it getting crushed. Bear in mind I'm looking at this on an sRGB display, so I'm not sure how it would change in Rec709/BT1886. I've often said that we fight really hard for even another unit or two of video in a 0-1023 10-bit display; crushing the blacks is throwing bits away. I accept that it's a creative choice, like anything else, but I don't think it's necessary in this shot. Power windows might be another way to control the scene without killing the suit fabric. The other issue is that the shoulder is just melting into the background due to lack of backlight; I'm good, but I can't throw in a backlight in Resolve.

One of the things I think any good colorist tries to do is to give the image a little depth, so that the characters are separated out from the background a little bit in terms of color and density. Crushing it down tends to flatten the image to the point where the actors merge with the background, which to me is the opposite of what you want. Density is more than just crushing blacks.
 
Yeah it looks a little like Gordon Willis took crack. There's texture and depth missing with the shadows that dark, tonality suffers.

I do think digital needs more power windows than film and a lot of people finish too flat (but amateurs also push way too contrasty at times, way more frequently). We're not assessing an image for technical detail but artistic merit... but once you begin assessing it technically (or the layman does) then you know you have a problem and I think these shadows roll off too harsh into flatness.

Too dark. Losing texture.
 
That particular shot isn't crushed at all. It's completely, if barely, off the bottom. I'm already using a couple of windows to knock the shirt and photograph (which rises fully into the shot), but I might try another on the actor's left shoulder.

It also looks a bit different on the low-end on my Flanders, but I appreciate the comments.

Thanks much!

Stephen
 
Stephen it's fine. Grading is 100% subjective.

grade it the way you like, there is no such thing as a correct image, except if you are a video technician looking at funny looking technical monitors.

the only thing "technically", you should concern yourself with, is getting the image you see at your grading suite to be accurately enough portrayed in the cinema or on blu-ray / streaming platforms.
 
"the only thing "technically", you should concern yourself with, is getting the image you see at your grading suite to be accurately enough portrayed in the cinema or on blu-ray / streaming platforms."

That, Sidney, is my greatest concern. That's why I bought the Flanders monitor. I figured I needed to know what I was really looking at.

Now, as it happens, I did raise the shadows a touch in response to Marc's and Jake's and others' comments above. . . and, well. . . I did like it better, so I'm keeping it that way.

Thanks again!

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
If I could figure out a way to post stills on this crazy system, I'd show you a couple of shots that I am liking. Any suggestions how to put a .png or .tif on here???
Stephen
Click to expand...

Flickr is another option... pretty easy to embed a photo link using the little tree with a square around it icon.
 
There's nothing wrong with lifted or crushed blacks if that's an intentional look. The equivalent in film is a silver retention process used in the prints for films like "Seven" or "Saving Private Ryan", "Delicatessen", "City of Lost Children", "Snow Falling on Cedars", "Sleepy Hollow", etc. If done well, when combined with things like overcast weather, soft lighting, etc. it can be a lovely effect, like an ink drawing or rich b&w print. The real issue is whether the blacks "feel" artificially crushed to the point where your eye expects some detail, versus simply very rich and deep blacks.
 
Great point, Mr. Mullen. My intention was to make a lot of this film rich and dark. . . it's a fairly dark drama after all.

But I also know that, despite my advanced age (57!), i've never done anything like this before. "Terminal" is just my second film, and we had a professional colorist last time around. Now, for better or worse (probably worse!), I'm doing the color myself (I can't afford a real pro this time), and I definitely don't want to screw it all up and hear someone shout out over the "crowd" in the 1/50th-filled theater we'll probably have: "Who did the color on this film?!?!?!"

:-)

Stephen
 
i will echo what Marc mentioned - crushed blacks WILL fail QC, keep the blacks dancing just at 0 and all is good, if QC see's a flat line on their scopes you will be fixing it…
 
I would say, yes, from a QC point of view the shot is a little crushed:

ScreenShot2014-09-17at100011PM_zps96095237.png
 
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