"Saving" for film?

[Spencer C]

Is it possible to "save" for film? .. let me explain .. we have a client coming in that wants to "save" for the possibility of printing to film down the road if they get the budget for it. As it stands now we will be finishing the project to HDSR which should be no problem but my concern is that once we get into the 2k prores workflow there isn't an easy way to get back to those 4k R3D files for a 35mm finish. Is there a workflow that I could start with from the beginning that would allow for the 35mm finish but still be able to easily edit and finish to HDSR with the 2k prores files? would I start by converting the footage to DPX files?

Hopefully that made some sense .. if not just let me know and I'll try to clarify.

 

[Kenn Michael]

HDSR finish is good enough to print out to 35mm. Every film shot on a Genesis or F900 was printed to film from an SR master.

What software are you cutting in? FCP, Avid, Adobe?

You could use a variety of tools to take your EDL/XML and produce DPX files (2K or 4K). 4K DIs are VERY expensive, and it would be more common to do a 2K DI. But again, the difference between the 2K DI and the 1080 SR Master are not that different in size.

 

[Spencer C]

Thanks for the reply. It will be offlined and onlined in FCP. The client wants the ability to do a 4k DI and our SR deck only does 4:2:2 .. so it probably wouldn't be adequate for printing to film.
So when everything is done and I have the finished product sitting in final cut, what would I have to do to get it ready for printing to film? .. and what tools would I need to use? Gluetools? Crimson? So to my understanding the movie could be cut in 2k prores start to finish and using the finished EDL or XML to create the appropriate files for a 4k DI.
Would there be a better or more efficient way to import and offline the clips to simplify the transfer to film? My experience with film is very limited so excuse my ignorance.

 

[Kenn Michael]

The offline should happen in the most comfortable way for you to creatively do your edit. Once it's locked, you can just take your XML from FCP and use Crimson to render 4K DPX files that can then be loaded into any 4K color correction system for the film grade.

Alternatively, you could take the XML into a Scratch suite and have Scratch do the conform and 4K DPX generation.

Another way is to take the XML, use Clipfinder to point back to the R3D files from the XML and open it up in Adobe Premiere Pro CS4. Use Dynamic Link to open the newly conformed Premiere Pro project in After Effects and have After Effects output 4K DPX files.

If the client has the money to do the 4K DI, then using a Scratch for conform and a Quantel Pablo for correction should be in the budget.

Either way, for your offline/1080P finish, make sure that the ProRes filenames match the names of the original Red R3D files, and besides that, it's just a matter of exporting an XML that can go to Scratch or Crimson for 4K conform. As long as you have access to the original R3D files, the client can always DI from those raw files.

Hope that helps.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Kenn the guy used the word "2K prores"... I don't thing that you are talking the same thing...

Spencer, you have to go with RGB work flow, so no prores... If you want to have the best compromise... prores is not so good as a 422 uncompressed 10bit quicklime... actually there is no comparison... prores is a TV or offline format...

If I try to compare prores 422 and RGB 2K DPX Log 10bit for film out, is like comparing S-VHS with Digital Beta...

Spencer try to follow Kenn's recommendations to have an open path with the R3D's in case that you need it... Also its working the FCP to Color work flow...

 

[David Mullen ASC]

It seems your choices boil down to (probably in increasing cost and complexity):

1) create a good HDCAM-SR master, which could also be used for a film-out if necessary -- it would be similar to a 2K D.I. It would be preferable though to do the work at 4:4:4 LOG though, create a separate 4:2:2 Rec 709 master from that. But even at 4:2:2, it would probably be fairly decent in quality, even for digital cinema presentation.

2) do a 4K or 2K D.I. first, make an HDCAM-SR broadcast version from that, which is the more traditional way of doing theatrical features

3) make your HDCAM-SR 4:2:2 broadcast version but plan on going back to the R3D files and doing a conversion and re-conform in the future in order to create a 4K or 2K master.

 

[JD Marlow]

It would seem like David's option # 3 makes the most sense if you're not even sure you'll be printing back to film. The R3D files will always be there if you back them up properly. Just means you would have to begin your "onlining" process from Scratch --- literally from the Scratch system.