Sachtler, Miller or Cartoni?

[Joseph S.]

Almost ready to pull the trigger on focus HD. Would you recommend it?

I've barely used anything else since I'm new to these tripods, but it seems great for what it is. My pan and tilts are smooth and camera is easy to balance.

There are others here who are more qualified to give their opinion. But for the price, it's decent, and lightweight with the Miller solo sticks.

 

[Clint Lealos]

That's funny. I returned 4 of those tripods because of the shitty tilt lock! You mean it was just a simple adjustment? Does it lock up solidly now? At fully tightened, I could still move the tilt fairly easily. A similar sized Sachtler FS8 tripod would tip over before the tilt lock gave way when pushing on the handle. I'd love to hear they can be truly locked after an adjustment. Thanks.

 

[Joseph S.]

Clint, it's beyond locked. When I move it just a bit passed the half-way mark, it becomes welded steel, and in the unlocked position, totally loose. I guess the the final assembly people didn't tighten it all that much.

The funny thing is, the sales guy at a popular shop in Burbank told me as long as I have the camera balanced, I don't even need a tilt brake. To avoid talking shit about people, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Clint unless I have a defective unit that adjustment gives only a marginal improvement.

Edit : apparently I have a defective unit lol

 

[Joseph S.]

Clint unless I have a defective unit that adjustment gives only a marginal improvement.

Edit : apparently I have a defective unit lol

You might just have to make it tighter. What I did is, I removed the plastic lever, tightened the screw/nut so it's locked fairly tight, and placed the plastic lever back at just a bit below the maximum position.

 

[Clint Lealos]

The funny thing is, the sales guy at a popular shop in Burbank told me as long as I have the camera balanced, I don't even need a tilt brake. To avoid talking shit about people, that's all I'm going to say.

That's awesome

 

[Joseph S.]

Scary scary moment tonight. Almost had a heart attack.

I was carrying the Epic/RPP, mounted on the tripod, very carefully. I know that's not the proper method, but I had no choice.

Walked about 5 feet and the Epic with 25mm RPP popped off the mount. It's one of those moments when you know you're dead.

I don't know how, but the camera was resting on my right shoulder. Any sudden movement and it was going to drop. I lucked out and grabbed it.

If you have a Focus HD, you really need to tighten the top screw for the main mount sliding clip. I don't think this will last too long. I tightened the screw to the max.

Good luck.

 

[Mark K.]

Ouch! Sounds like you got very lucky!

As an update, I ended up stretching the budget even further than I'd planned to, but I ended up settling on the Miller Arrow 25. Now I just need to get CVP to take my damn money!

 

[Josef Gatti]

Scary scary moment tonight. Almost had a heart attack.

I was carrying the Epic/RPP, mounted on the tripod, very carefully. I know that's not the proper method, but I had no choice.

Walked about 5 feet and the Epic with 25mm RPP popped off the mount. It's one of those moments when you know you're dead.

I don't know how, but the camera was resting on my right shoulder. Any sudden movement and it was going to drop. I lucked out and grabbed it.

If you have a Focus HD, you really need to tighten the top screw for the main mount sliding clip. I don't think this will last too long. I tightened the screw to the max.

Good luck.

The story alone made my bones chill, can't imagine what it would have been like for you. Are you suggesting the screw won't hold for much longer? Would you suggest a different head? I'm still undecided on which to go.

 

[Mark K.]

The story alone made my bones chill, can't imagine what it would have been like for you. Are you suggesting the screw won't hold for much longer? Would you suggest a different head? I'm still undecided on which to go.

Josef, I'd say go for the Miller. I rented a Compass 20 for a shoot I had last week and was completely convinced by it (hence opting for the Arrow 25) - the movement is silky smooth, and the construction is just top notch (I gave it a pretty thorough going-over to try and get an idea for how one might hold up in the long term - and everything seemed rock solid).

Plus they're Aussie-made.

 

[Lee Saxon]

The story alone made my bones chill, can't imagine what it would have been like for you. Are you suggesting the screw won't hold for much longer? Would you suggest a different head? I'm still undecided on which to go.

The screw is for adjustment, presumably for different plates or for tolerance variations between plates. If you tighten it down all the way it's actually TOO tight to clamp all the way onto the stock plate without a massive amount of force. It's supposed to be there.

 

[Joseph S.]

I'm using a bit more force than usual to tighten it, but I can't go through that near heart attack again. It's nice and secure now. Feels very secure.

 

[Sam Edwards]

I've seen Joseph's rig and it's heavy. Occonor?
Sam

 

[Joseph S.]

Hey Sam. It was the Cartoni Focus HD head and Miller Solo sticks. I assume you are referring to the Epic and Red Prime together. Yup, it's heavy for a carry around camera. At least it's helping me remember those muscles that I lost so long ago.

 

[Will Newman]

+1 for the 509HD. I did look at all the other systems mentioned and fter owning Sachtler systems for a few years I was hesitant going to a Manfrotto system but it's been a few weeks and so far pretty happy. Only complaint is I think I should've gone with the 536 legs, but that's on me.

 

[Trey Chace]

DONT DO IT!

DONT DO IT!

look, this is just my opinion, and it may not be totally welcome, but do yourself a huge favor, and dont get some 75mm dinky pair of sticks, and definitely dont get a head that is just over your load. even if you're carrying them around a lot, or traveling a lot, and yes, even if you're shooting with a barely loaded red, go bigger and better. It will keep you happy longer. I used to but stuff like this all the time, and I always had to replace it later. your camera will get more loaded, you will shoot with huge glass at some point, you will see a huge difference in torsional snapback with lighter stick, and it will effect your image. IMO, get a pair of CF 100 speedlocks (love, love, love those) and a good head that will last you many many cameras, like the 7+7 (both from Sachtler). the 1030HD head is also money. Every time I've gone 90% on a buy but not quite 100%, I've ended up disappointed, and eventually upgraded anyhow in the future only wishing I had bought big the first time. Go big, especially on this.
just my 2 cents.
cool,
t

 

[Joseph S.]

Trey,

My grandpa always says, "I don't have enough money to buy inexpensive things."

Meaning, he always buys the higher quality stuff, so he doesn't have to buy it over and over, therefore not wasting money.

Always thought it was a cool quote.

Joe

 

[Mark K.]

look, this is just my opinion, and it may not be totally welcome, but do yourself a huge favor, and dont get some 75mm dinky pair of sticks, and definitely dont get a head that is just over your load. even if you're carrying them around a lot, or traveling a lot, and yes, even if you're shooting with a barely loaded red, go bigger and better. It will keep you happy longer. I used to but stuff like this all the time, and I always had to replace it later. your camera will get more loaded, you will shoot with huge glass at some point, you will see a huge difference in torsional snapback with lighter stick, and it will effect your image. IMO, get a pair of CF 100 speedlocks (love, love, love those) and a good head that will last you many many cameras, like the 7+7 (both from Sachtler). the 1030HD head is also money. Every time I've gone 90% on a buy but not quite 100%, I've ended up disappointed, and eventually upgraded anyhow in the future only wishing I had bought big the first time. Go big, especially on this.
just my 2 cents.
cool,
t

All good points Trey, and they were all weighing on my mind as I tossed and turned at nights over the decision. In the end I followed that logic and opted for the 100mm Miller Arrow 25 with Miller Solo sticks, all of which should be plenty heavy duty enough to handle my needs for the foreseeable future.

 

[Trey Chace]

I might have to use grampa's quote in the future, I like that

Trey,

My grandpa always says, "I don't have enough money to buy inexpensive things."

Meaning, he always buys the higher quality stuff, so he doesn't have to buy it over and over, therefore not wasting money.

Always thought it was a cool quote.

Joe

 

[Steve Gibby]

opted for the 100mm Miller Arrow 25 with Miller Solo sticks, all of which should be plenty heavy duty enough to handle my needs for the foreseeable future.

Good choice...

For real heavy head load work with my Red One and Epic cameras, me and my crews use Miller Arrow 55 heads with Miller Sprinter II CF 2-stage mid-spreader legs. Head action is very smooth and those rigs easily handle up to 55 pounds - or even more.

Most of the time we do real mobile work using Canon 35mm still lenses, so we use Miller Compass 25 heads with Miller Solo 1505 CF spreader-less legs. I've attached some pics of some of those rigs in action - both 3D rigs and 2D rigs. The Miller Arrow 25 is rated for a maximum of 31 pounds - easily enough for most Epic rig setups - except super heavy setups with huge lenses and tons of accessories.

On one of our recent 3D productions we decided to see how much we could load up a Miller Compass 25/ Miller Solo CF tripod, so we shot with our Epic 3D setup on a Genus Hurricane. The head weight was 41 pounds, a full ten pounds over the Compass 25 rating of 31 pounds - and the head worked perfectly (see attached pics). The Miller Solo CF legs are rated for 66 pounds, so no problem there either.

The Miller Arrow 25 head you bought is rated for exactly the same head load as the Miller Compass 25 (31 pounds). My guess is that the Arrow 25 will over-perform on specs the same way as the Compass 25.

Over all these years working with Red One and Epic I've found Miller heads and legs to be great performers - and me and my crews do highly mobile work under some of the most trying conditions possible (desert, mountains, seashore). The Miller stuff costs less than the other top level manufacturers - and to me they have the best price to performance ratio in the head/tripod industry.