Run & Gun Question.

[Peter Kalentzis]

Hey guys, I was hoping you can lend some advice.

I am in the market for a new camera. My heart is with Scarlet. I find the video and latitude in post to be pure magic.

My problem is this. My work involves a lot of quick set-up's and hand held work. Often, I find myself having VERY little set-up time and in environment’s I can not control (I.E. not able to have a proper light kit). Does anyone have any experience w/that type of work? Would you still recommend or have me go with a different cam?

Thank you in advance.

Pete

 

[Matt Gerard]

I think that this is the perfect camera for your situation, it will all depend on your accessory choices. The rig I work with is what I call a "break down" rig. It is in cases and pieces. The whole thing needs to be assembled every time we use it. That is nice as it allows me to setup the rig exactly the way I need for each situation and lens, the bad thing is it takes time.

After doing that for 9 months, I am starting to figure out what bits and pieces I use every time, and what bits I don't use. Right now everything is in multiple smaller pelican cases, for which I spent much time laying out and cutting foam (see my thread here). But the assembly is getting old, and I am now looking at a modular case where I can keep the camera somewhat assembled (plate, redmote, upper rail mount and handle). I've seen roller cases with pretty sturdy modular interiors, where I can keep the camera ready to go (minus the lens) and keep some audio gear, a lens or 2 and some odds and ends for 90% of my jobs.

So, in the end I think that the latitude can only help you in those unknown, no setup time situations. But, only if you prepare your rig and kit to allow you to setup quickly.

Good luck!

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

I love my Scarlet, and the only camera i replace it with will be Epic, but today it's not the best solution for run and gun filming in terms of size, weight, and light sensitivity.
I would choose, depending on the lenses you own, 1DmkIV or D4;

 

[Chris Harless]

I love my Scarlet, and the only camera i replace it with will be Epic, but today it's not the best solution for run and gun filming in terms of size, weight, and light sensitivity.
I would choose, depending on the lenses you own, 1DmkIV or D4;

I would wholeheartedly agree.

Just finished a run and gun shoot on a project that we do for a client every 2 years. We've had the gig for the last 10 years. We've used everything from Beta to Panasonic P2 over the years on it. This year we decided to use the Scarlet. And yes i partially agree it probably could have gone a lot easier with the right accessories. But it was one of the most difficult shoots we have ever done and we walked away with half the footage we were used to capturing over the years. Its not a fast camera...at least not for us. We ended up passing on alot of "spontaneous" moments where in the past we would jump off the cart and grab quickly. That just doesnt happen with a Scarlet.

In retrospect we really should have used a different camera for this project. An EX-1 or an AF100.

But we have also completed about 6 TV spots on the Scarlet and had an overwhelmingly positive experience.

So for us we will probably just stick to using it on shoots where we can take our time.

 

[Arnold F.]

I do a lot of "run and gun" and ENG broadcast work and I'd never use my Scarlets for it. Today we had a shoot that we had 20 minutes to set up for - out in the street and riding around on the top of a double decker tour bus shooting two camera interviews. No electricity, all handheld. I can't imagine how these shoots could happen with my Scarlet. No time (or electricity) to blackshade and the client won't want a Terabyte of data to cut down to two minutes. The upload process would take as long as our entire shoot today.

We shoot a lot with the EX3 and if I were to buy a camera for the type of ENG/run and gun work I do I'd go with that or something similar. BTW, ALL the R&G work I do has at least one Audio Operator, sometimes two. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

For the run'n'gun gigs, the Panasonic AC160A is the best choice today : highly versatile optics & very light.

 

[jimhare]

Some good advice so far. I generally keep my Epic and Scarlet fully built. I put it in a Portabrace and can be shooting in under a minute. This works if you're working locally but not as easy when travelling.

Having said that, when I just have to grab something quick, or don't have much warning, I more than often grab the DSLR, even using its internal mic and get closer to my subject.

So even with access to the best tools in-house sometimes an $800 camera is all you need and turns out to the be the right decision.

 

[Brian Pascale]

Have to agree. Love shooting with the Scarlet, but for run and gun there are easier cameras. With my rig that I spend $1,500 I can shoot a lot quicker, but not as quick as I can with my HVX-200a or even my HPX-500. Most of my work does not have to be 4k, but I definitely pull out my Scarlet if I am shooting against windows. It does have remarkable latitude.

 

[stu aull]

No doubt, given the option, having specific camera-types for specific kinds of shooting would be nice. I think with Scarlets and ALL of us being somewhat "new" to these configurations, you need two (rather obvious) things:
-the right accessories
-time/experience

Coming from a shoulder-mount betacam EFP set-up (25yrs) I was VERY disappointed in how poorly (I perceived) my Scarlet was prepared for run-and-gun shooting. But with 9 months into ownership and the-admittedly deep learning curve of both the operation AND accessorizing of the Scarlet, I am getting into the swing of things. Some thoughts:
Packaging:
-by this I mean, what do I want my _default_ out-of-the-case camera configuration to be? To me, the more "ready-to-go" I can have the camera stored for transit, the quicker the set up in the field.
I chose a specific carry-all field case that permits my Scarlet to be more-or-less pre-assembled (like my old betacam)... and still carry basic secondary gear: 2 other lenses, filters, tools, power, mic - and in my case, a PIX 240 recorder/monitor (case: Pelican 1560)
So-
-viewfinder (BOMB)
-battery (V-Brick)
-lens (24-70 "default" all-rounder)
-side handle
-6" front-mount rods
All pre-attached (some will argue risks of lens pre-mounted, etc. but non-issue for me so far. My MUCH bigger Canon broadcast zoom stayed on my betacam for 2 decades all over Alaska without problems).
This means I can literally pull out the camera, pop in the battery connection and boot up as I am walking over to the tripod.

Run-and-gun lensing:
As I said, my default mount is the 24-70. A drawback I am still overcoming is the lack of any ONE lens like my old beta 14x broadcast zoom that can handle 99% of my framing needs. Having to carry AND switch out lenses mid-shoot can be a real deal-breaker in Run-and-Gun situations. Here is a trick I have used for _HD_ shoots:
-I have programmed 2 keys to switch me between 4KHD and 2KHD settings, so that, at the touch of a key (in my case I chose the BOMBs 2 programmable keys) I can effectively DOUBLE my focal length (like an electronic tele-extender) by switching to 2KHD. So my 24-70 instantly becomes an 84-140.
-for real wide-angle stuff, I discovered my faithful old Century Optics .7x wide-angle lens _attachment_ slides right onto the front of my Tamron (82mm), giving me a quick-but-not-dirty 16mm! (no vignetting even at 4K btw).

Hand-held:
Frankly still working on that - various shoulder rigs are out there. The Great ones are eye-wateringly expensive (Clutch, etc.) but you can cobble up some pretty effective rigs for _much_ less $$. Balance is the key as these cameras tend to be very front heavy for anything but short-duration HH work. The real challenge here is getting your head around an HH kit that is quick to attach/detach. Other threads are out there dealing with specifics and specs, so do some research. For me - I am working with suspension-support concepts, specifically ATLAS support rigs (http://www.atlascamerasupport.com/) that use a light vest and a one-clip snap-on to float the camera at your shoulder. Cheap (under $400) , super-quick and surprisingly effective.

Media:
Recognizing that 95% of my client-base will never need more than HD, I use a PIX240 recorder. Not trying to challenge RAW workflows or quality-of-R3D here! Just the facts-on-the-ground for my business. It does bulk-up the camera, but I have it rigged up on a quick-release so its virtually snap-and-go. And the HD image quality is amazing. For the price of one of REDs big SSD cards.

So my point here (and this has been far better defined by Steve Gibby, noted RED pioneer and confirmed EFP guy) is that I think, with patience and some research, your Scarlet _can_ do well in an EFP environment. Our Little Black Boxes (OK, gray...) are just waiting for us to hang the right bits on it!

Stu Aull
SX 199
PIX240
Alaska

 

[Bob Gundu]

Stu I agree on much of your experience. I started on the DVX, then HVX, and then AF100 before the Scarlet. I feel very confident using the Scarlet as a run and gun camera. my soution was to make the camera into an ENG style rig as much as possible. Too many rigs have shoulder solutions that are to high for me. I like the camera a little lower. I built my own shoulder solution using the Quad battery as more of a shoulder mount by using velcro to attach a pad. I also use the Samurai for ProRes recording. Keeps the camera balanced actually. I also don't need handles because it's so well balanced. Actually I do use the RED wheel on a rail for the right hand while my left is on the focus/aperture. My rig is here:

 

[Aria Khosravi]

It depends on what you mean by "run and gun." Are you talking about TV, films, that sort of thing? Or do you meant like event coverage, video journalism, ENG EFP stuff?

If it's the latter, then Scarlet is not the right camera, IMO. The RAW and DR are great things to have, but I'm one of those guys that doesn't like the idea of large sensors for event work. You're trying to capture things with clarity, not razor shallow DoF where one eye is in focus and the other isn't. Any of the 'prosumer' cameras will be your best bet. EX1, Canon XF lineup, Panasonic stuff... Lots of choices. My vote is for small sensors in these situations, but there are heaps of others who feel comfortable using full frame sensors for the same purposes. It's preference, I guess.

Now, if you're talking about the first one, then I think you'll benefit greatly from the size, DR, and post flexibility. The prosumer stuff won't look "right" in a film or TV context. If you mess up a little on exposure, for example, chances are you have enough headroom to fix it, and non-destructively through RAW.

 

[Arnold F.]

What does the client want? Are they okay paying rental for one or more Scarlets and all that support gear? Are they okay with dealing with RAW files and possibly many gigabytes or even terabytes of data? Do they want to wait to blackshade cameras? Do they want to pay a media manager and wait for all the files to upload, perhaps on the street where there is no access to power? Like a previous poster brought up, do they want shallow depth of field? For the R&G work I do for various networks the answer is to all these questions is absolutely not. They would think I was green (or trying to trick them into paying higher rates) if I tried to sell them a cinema camera for ENG or Reality shoots.

Part of the problem are the varying definitions of "run and gun." In the response above, I'm referring to the whole scope of the production. It can also mean just pared-down, shoulder-mounted shooting, and I think the Scarlet is great for that assuming the production accepts the implications of the other parts of the workflow. For others, R&G somehow came to mean no sound (you know who you are), which I can't speak to since I've yet to work on a silent film or tv project. I think silent film is making a comeback as it seems a lot of folks here are getting hired for them.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Properly configured, a Scarlet or Epic with a PIX240 or similar 1080 recorder can do run and gun just fine. Obviously you can shoot run and gun projects with a smaller and lower cost camera. Will your client care about any image quality differences? Many won't. Many won't ever even see the image except on a production monitor in high ambient light or just on a small LCD, so unless the editor complains, the IQ issue is moot.

FWIW the more annoying impediment to shooting run and gun on Scarlet or Epic is not the camera but the limited lensing options and the lack of a built in ND filter wheel. I would suggest a 8x or better zoom with a servo grip plus a screw on variable ND fader and small lens shade. Problem is, AFAIK, no such lens is on the market right now. The Fujinon HK7.5x24 might fit the bill but it's not yet shipping and will probably cost north of $50K.

I have been campaigning for a PL "kit" zoom that offers similar operational characteristics to an ENG style B4 lens for 5 years now. Physics and market size concerns have left that door open so far. I still hope that RED will step up and offer something similar to the zoom planned for the fixed Scarlet. Fingers crossed...

Cheers - #19

 

[Paul Ellington]

Yeah, man, get your rig customized to your body's ergonomics... After that, it's a matter of what you need... New auto-focus on Canon mount is great and keeps getting quicker with each firmware update. You can literally put a finger where you want to focus and BOOM! Dunzo. For doc work this would be quite useful... You probably missed the allotment for Scarlet X $7000... But it's still a wicked steal, though I would highly recommend checking out Epic in person.

Cheers.

- E

 

[Steve Sherrick]

The simple answer for run & gun filming exists in the very wording itself. How fast can you run around and pull the trigger to keep up with your subjects? And subsequently how fast can you then turn that footage around at the end of the day to the client? For example, if you are running around with a Scarlet with a limited zoom range and suddenly have to switch lenses to get a shot, more than likely you will miss the shot and have an upset client. I think some have managed to rig out their Epics and Scarlets to mimic an ENG camera but I don't think it's for everybody. And I do feel that 2/3" cameras are sometimes ideal for capturing run & gun doc or reality. Combine that with designs that are meant to be put on a shoulder for long periods of time with built in zooms and ND filters and you start to see the benefits of these tools. For killer b-roll shots, sit-down interviews, and any situation where you have the time to really get it right in terms of IQ I think Scarlet and Epic are a great choice. There will always be exceptions though. There are many people who can follow a subject around and pull their own focus on a RED, completely debunking what I just said. But it takes experience and skill to pull it off.

I agree with Blair, I too have been waiting for the perfect lightweight cine zoom that could cover a wide range of focal lengths. I think it's just hard to do affordably, hence why the only solutions on the market cost $40K+.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Catch 22 really. With ever changing environments, like color temp and exposure, working in RAW is killer. I've made it work for me, but I agree that it's not for everyone.