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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rumor started in LA

Stephen, it seems ludmux is also a 35 mm guy, cinematography board member. But not DP.

ludmux said:
.

but there are also wonderfull films without any lighting...
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Filmmaker is right. Filmmaking is beyond your craft. With the digital cinema, your predominance's power shall lose some room succeeding some changes concerning the general hierarchy. In the independent production, it won't be more need to pay the same high prices to the DPs. Simply because they won't have the same control over our work. Your craft will have less predominance on our budgets.
 
filmmaker's gang said:
you amuses me.. filmmaking in just one word??.. ok lighting and is that all?

:confused:
eheheheh..​
eheheheh..​
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Hi,

If you reread my post I said 'Great Cinematography' not filmmaking.

Stephen
 
ludmux said:
.

but there are also wonderfull films without any lighting...
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Hi,

But is the cinematography great or a good script well acted & directed?

Stephen
 
you're cool and polite..

just kidding often..

but it's true we work in opposite sides of this stuff.. for you, the cinematography is everything.. for us, only a small part of our movies.. film stock can be our jobless..

and sometimes the lighting setup is boring like ugly actress candidates.. no casting.. eheheh..
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

I never realised inde films paid their DP's high fees.

Stephen
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Indie as in independent. Doesn't have to mean cheap. Although it does often work out that way.
 
i think many confuse INDIE with no budget ...

what amount is considered hi DP fee's ?
1000wk , 2000wk, 3000wk, 5000wk, 10,000wk, 15,000wk, 20,000wk ?
 
zakaree said:
because the high end DP's will be threatened as far as jobs go..
Now young talent with access to a high quality camera will be able to show up and produce some amazing images.. im not saying any shmoe with 17,5 will be able to make the next big film.. but it opens up the game for talented people to come in and blow the old foggies out of the water.. or at least push them to the side a lil
Click to expand...
Although I share your stoke for the emergence of RED One, and feel that it’s capability and affordability will significantly change the dynamic of the motion media marketplace, I also feel that a significant portion of what you term “old foggies” will quickly learn to use RED One, through purchase or rental. If “young talent” with limited experience/credits (and few industry contacts) and RED technology is pitted against old talent with deep experience/credits (and broad industry contacts) and RED technology in competition for the same projects, most producers will go for the experienced pro over an inexperienced, but eager new guy – even if they have to pay a bit more. As a “young talent”, go onto the set with an over-confident attitude about your talent and equipment, and display that attitude to the gray-haired “old foggies” who are the producers, directors, and DPs, and you usually won’t last long on their set.

Give respect…and earn respect. The motion media industry is one of the few industries where age and achievement still command respect. In the tech industries young talent essentially rules the roost, except for the older management (CEO, CFO, COO, etc.). The film and television industries are rapidly assimilating technology, but the management of most larger companies, networks, and studios is still dominated by men and women who have some gray hair. They look for “young talent” to add to their workforce, or for contact work, but they require them to respect the veterans who have proved themselves in the motion media industry by years of success.

I’ve been an “indie” for my entire career as a producer, director, editor, and cinematographer, so I definitely understand the indie attitude. But even as an indie, I’ve had to show respect to the older men and women who are the “gatekeepers” (so to speak) at the networks and companies that I wanted to do contract work for, or wanted to air or distribute my indie projects and series.

I think RED One is a serious tool that will be taken seriously in the industry. I also think RED One can be a tool that unifies the converging television and film industries if everyone, no matter how young or old, experienced or in-experienced, sets aside their egos and prejudices, and works together for the advancement of motion media production.

When all is said and done, we’re all interested in a common goal…to get the best images we possibly can within the limitations of our project budgets.

True, there are some crusty old DPs and cinematographers who, for whatever reasons will take awhile to warm up to RED One, but let’s not make the stereotype that all older experienced people are tech-challenged and narrow-minded. I’m 58 years, a highly experienced producer, director, editor, DP, and cinematographer, and yet I jumped on the RED bandwagon at the very start, I’m a full-on techie, and I go out of my way to mentor “young talent”. My attitude: the more you learn, the more you should realize you don’t know. I learn a lot from others (no matter what their age), and hopefully they learn from me.

There are three types of people in the world, and also specifically in the motion media industry: 1) those that make things happen 2) those that watch things happen 3) those that wonder what just happened. The RED staff and most of those who reserved RED One cameras are Type 1. The rest of the industry has many Type 1 (but who, for a variety of reasons won’t make a move on RED One), but also a ton of Type 2 and Type 3. Risk and return are inseparably connected. First movers (Type 1) stand to lose a lot, but also stand to gain a lot. Type2 and Type 3 can easily find themselves behind the power curve – in a sink or swim environment. That’s not to say that those who don’t adopt RED One will sink, but merely that there is a chance they will fall behind their competition if they aren’t on top of emerging equipment of their trade.

As for the REDhaters and rumormongers…they’re water off a duck’s back to me. No matter what we decide to do, there will always be somebody there to tell us we’re wrong. If we believe in ourselves and trust our instincts, it doesn’t matter what the naysayers chatter about.

No worries, Zakaree. I’m not singling you out for what I posted, but rather giving this entire forum something to think about, through the eyes of an experienced veteran of this industry. Let’s all spend a lot less time judging each other and the naysayers…and a lot more time networking and exchanging constructive ideas about RED One.
 
Why would a cheaper camera bring down the weekly rate of a DP? I thought you payed the DP for their services as an artist not a CCD. Besides I'm sure Indie DPs are still getting payed peanuts. Let's say you have 5 - 12 hour days (an easily attainable goal on a production) that's 60 hours (20 overtime) @ let's give them a very modest $40 an hour. That's still $2800 a week. But DPs aren't on a production every week. Usually far from it, so you have to factor in the 'contract worker' tax as well to keep them alive in between projects. So now you have a camera which only costs let's say $1500 a week to rent.... so what do you do with the money? I would hope it would go into the talent making the confounded contraption work in the first place. The poor underpaid DP who is getting payed peanuts. Therefore, I feel like the conclusion that a cheaper camera will bring down DP rates is backwards. If anything it should drive them up as production money can finally go to the crew of indie films who really deserve more than they're getting (which is often nothing or close to it).

In all of the collaborative arts it comes down to your name. Is it well known? Is it known for quality? Do people like working with you? Are you honest, quick, intelligent and a contribution of the project. If the answer is Yes to all of these then you get the wonderful currency of referencing. You get to share your name with your friends. If they turn out to be bad news then you also suffer the consequences and your name can go down with it. If they succeed, they gain currency of their own. No camera will change this system.

And why care about RED Rumors? Will it stop you from getting a camera? I don't care if the Encyclopedia Britannica has an entry for RED that reads as: "A camera system which never ended up getting released" if I have one in my possession that works. Sometimes I get the distinct impression that people are putting a lot of completely camera unrelated hopes and dreams into the RED project, which have little to no chance of success, regardless of the mysterium's quality.
 
Shooting film has some requirements. Are you saying the dailies are likely digital footage going to the field display?
 
IMO the more persons with camera's that work the low end budgets will affect rates ....
somebody ( especially if there are Allot of somebody's) with little/no experience that owns a camera ( and that could be ANY camera) can drive down DP rates on the lower end budgets ... it's been this way since i've been in the game ... this is where you trade getting experience for no/little pay.

persons spends $$ on camera .. persons wants experience - they either throw in camera for FREE or they charge for camera and take no/little pay.

Producer ( with little experience) has little $$ , RED camera for free or DP for almost free is something to think about ... YES we all know it's the lighting & experience but if you can't really afford the lighting or experience person in 1st place then would you prefer to shoot 4k RED or SD hand size camera ? ..
 
"They want to see it fail because they know that once the RED is released, everyone will have the same access - They will no longer be the amongst the privileged that currently shoot on 35 or other high end HD systems... They will be assimilated with folks like us"

I remember when the Video Toaster came out. People did everything to put it down. Granted, it wasn't the highest end piece of gear, but it did start a revolution and gave the average person a way to make "Broadcast" video. They didn't like that.
 
No light no film. Blackout. Dark. In the most films/video "blackout" exists only like a short effect, at the beginning often combined with or without titles, to show a dark space, a night, etc...
 
What Jan meant is: there are wonderful movies where the lighting is no more a key link. Radical example is «Tarnation» [LINK]. But there are other examples since the motto given for the Nouvelle Vague unmotivated lighting concept or more recently the Dogma95 method -- where the available light is the only source 'allowed' (!).

RED ONE can be an excellent tool for this cinema genre. Nor all movie productions follow the mainstream cinematography or related to.
 
Dogme 95 is over

Dogme 95 is over

Emanuel said:
What Jan meant is: there are wonderful movies where the lighting is no more a key link. Radical example is «Tarnation» [LINK]. But there are other examples since the motto given for the Nouvelle Vague unmotivated lighting concept or more recently the Dogma95 method -- where the available light is the only source 'allowed' (!).

RED ONE can be an excellent tool for this cinema genre. Nor all movie productions follow the mainstream cinematography or related to.
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Emanuel Dogme95 is over, now Lars von Triers has Cinealta with all the gears for audio and lighting in the last two-three films. As I quote Heraclitus of Ephesus in my signature below "All things are in motion and nothing remains still." Lars is no more poor guy, now he's got rich and powerful. I am pretty sure that Lars & co. holding a couple or even more the RED ONE reservations. Have a look Lars and his gears below, he is totally digital guy...

LarsVT.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0240806638/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-8305323-8465753#reader-link
 
The Third Man said:
Lars is no more poor guy, now he's got rich and powerful. I am pretty sure that Lars & co. holding a couple or even more the RED ONE reservations.
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Sanjin,

I had a personal contact with Lars von Trier (since 1992-1994) and I can assure you he wasn't then a poor guy at all! :D Zentropa was then the first danish production company and Peter Aalbæk Jensen (his partner in Zentropa) the major producer there (I mean Denmark surely not just Zentropa). Do you know Europa* (1991), by chance?

(Sanjin, if you call it poor cinema...what can you call us over these same boards?
smilie_aengstl1.gif
)
I'm afraid Dogme 95 brought a lot of confusion among the community who didn't know his work before.

But Lars Trier (von Trier when he decided to be a famous director
sport-smiley-009.gif
back to 80s if not 70s) is a 35mm director before his incursion in DV and Cinealta (since Dogville) -- here is a great director for the RED marketing program (Jim, if you read this, feel free to contact me if you wish 'cause I'm sure there would be a good chance for a next LVT's movie shot with a RED ONE -- it would be a great marketing choice! And if Zentropa won't be a RED ONE reservations holder, as well, for my both #111 and #647...I wouldn't mind at all!
cool-smiley-002.gif
) PS -- Thus, I would change the thread's title for "Rumor started in REDuser" but 'cause I hate rumors and after all this would might be a fresh rumor, I'd suggest "Idea started in..."
 
PS

PS

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101829/

* My favorite movie ever (among many others of course! -- but this one? Well, this one...) [Special Prize of the Jury at the Cannes Festival, 1991 LINK]. As you see, this have not (any) connection with the Dogme 95 free(?)-style and he already was a successful filmmaker, including Cannes awarded even before that night when his smoking had been offered by Henning Bendtsen, Carl Dreyer's Ordet DP as being the same smoking offered to Bendtsen by the greatest danish master of all time!
[so...maybe (t)here's your poor's man quote
laughing-smiley-012.gif
)]
 
Emanuel,

I like Lars and his movies and I was a bit studing Dogme 95 manifesto years ago...etc...my favourite of Lars movies is not one of his "big" movies but it is very Lars >> Fem benspænd, De (2003) in English "The five obstructions" >> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0354575/

also I like a lot of Danish stuff like Jacobsen furniture (have some), Bung & Olufsen (have some), like Karlsberg beer, like a lot Danish girls (had some)and more...
 
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