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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rolling shutter test with #232

Michael Lindsay said:
With regards to the strobe problem:

How about a third party creates a front of lens shutter (Mechanical). This synced to a red running a slow shutter couple be used only in special shot situations...

regards

Michael
Click to expand...

This may also help with skew. I've said it before, I'm ready to buy.

Buy the way great tests Jim.
IBloom
 
obin said:
we have done several syntheyes 3d motion tracking tests with red footage off this board.... no problems at all extracting 3d data. Easier to get a stable sollution than any footage i've ever tracked before.
Click to expand...

Hi Obin, I've done the same with footage here. But that won't always be the case, and it's shot/subject dependent. Like the example link I gave earlier.

For instance, it will be impossible to generate an accurate 3D tripod nodal track if the camera pans/tilt at even a moderate speed over 90 degrees or so... the errors will compound and throw the track off. Then you're hand fudging the fit. It will report as a successful track, but simply won't work as expected.

Here's some insight on the potential problems...

http://www.ssontech.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=478

Regards,
 
I own the Sony PMW-EX1. Based on Jim's camera movement verses skew, I'd say the EX1 is about the same.
 
WesVasher said:
I One thing the HV20 does that I haven't seen in the RED footage is that if you jerk the HV20 vertically the frame will squish vertically.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's known as wobble. I have not seen this on the EX1, but it's possible I have not jerked it quick enough.
 
Build 13 Improvements?

Jannard said:
It appears that the sensor timing was changed on Build 12 that could effect the skew. We are checking it now. If it was changed in error, we will issue a Build 13 pronto.

Jim
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These tests seem to accurately show the amount of skew on the RED ONE (as it is now). There will be about a 10% improvement in Build 13 or 14 with a settings change.

Jim
 
Can anyone do a field test say in a lightly wooded area using a flash more akin
to a gun shot? I know its been said a whole bunch of times that everyone wants to make films where hundreds and hundreds of people get shot. I can see ways around it for most situations, but in really large scale dark battle scenes it would be a real problem.

Is there no way to make the chip fire faster and do a single exposure rather than the layered exposure? Would it be possible to have a few shutter speeds and fps rates where the sync was perfect so that the artifacts from the strobing where eliminated?

I didn't think it was a major issue, but now I'm not so sure.
 
obin said:
we have done several syntheyes 3d motion tracking tests with red footage off this board.... no problems at all extracting 3d data. Easier to get a stable sollution than any footage i've ever tracked before.
Click to expand...

thanks now i feel safe with it:blink:
 
Forget the skew. . . it's the synch flash issue that's the killer

Forget the skew. . . it's the synch flash issue that's the killer

I can certainly live with the skew issue. . . it's a problem. . . but the flash synchronization issue is just huge. This, to me, is the single biggest disappointment with the camera. Try to do a scene with an ambulance, firetruck, and a few police cars at night. . . exactly a scene I have in my upcoming film. . . and. . . well. . . we're toast. I don't know what we're going to do about that scene.

:-(

Stephen
 
HOLLYWOOD SCHMOLLYWOOD said:
Some of it definitely seems acceptable. I'm just worried about always being conscious of my panning speed all the time and working around great action shots. can you sync gunshots? not that I know of. imagine the scene in the aviator (if it were shot on RED) when they arrive at the Mann's Chinese Theatre. you would have to sync like 40 old school bulb flashes!

again not the end of the world... but poses some considerations.
Click to expand...

These situations have their "film equivalent" issues. We have to be conscious of panning speeds and vertical objects in film otherwise you get "strobing".

"syncing" gun shots? When you shoot on film you are not guaranteed to see every muzzle flash.

I have used Lightning Strikes "Paparazzi" flash units on film and you can control their "length".

I wonder if experimenting with "longer" exposure times with the RED might solve some of these issues. What are the "effective" shuttter length options? Isn't there a "0" setting.

Can't wait to get my camera!

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I can certainly live with the skew issue. . . it's a problem. . . but the flash synchronization issue is just huge. This, to me, is the single biggest disappointment with the camera. Try to do a scene with an ambulance, firetruck, and a few police cars at night. . . exactly a scene I have in my upcoming film. . . and. . . well. . . we're toast. I don't know what we're going to do about that scene.

:-(

Stephen
Click to expand...

This is a prolblem that you would have with a film camera also. Robert Zemeckis had to add a camera flash in post for "What Lies Beneath" that their Panavision missed.

It' s something that happens and we have to live with it or fix it in post. Nothing new here.
 
Thanks for posting the tests, Jim. It's nice to know what the camera can and cannot do. For me, the skew is not a big issue because I don't do motion tracking. But now I have to think hard about filming anywhere there is flashing lights. This would include police cars, nightclubs, concerts, weddings, or anywhere that someone can just walk along and take a flash picture. In EFP situations, sometimes you don't have much control over your environment. I don't face these situations often, but it's definitely a consideration.
 
Miltos Pilalitos said:
This is a prolblem that you would have with a film camera also. Robert Zemeckis had to add a camera flash in post for "What Lies Beneath" that their Panavision missed.

It' s something that happens and we have to live with it or fix it in post. Nothing new here.
Click to expand...

He's not talking about flashes he missed but flashes that only appear above or below a very hard line. There is no easy post workaround for that.
I still think setting the camera to 360 shutter and using some aftermarket shutter in or in front of the lens should do the trick.
 
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