Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

rocket x with maxxed rmbp VS 6 core trash can maxxed ram d700s no rocket x

B

Brian Merlen

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,185
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
Stamford CT
Website
vestadalux.com
what machine do you think would run better as far as on set playback/encoding with LUTs? I can't really spend more then this and I need a system asap cuz I have a Dragon coming in next week and I want to have the ability to go out on jobs with it and work as the tech should the need to do so arise (hoping it does). I realize the trash can without rocket will do stuff other then r3ds, but i'll need to drive to every job instead of small pelican on metro north being a potential option and my own personal stuff is easier without power as well... but I wouldn't want to sacrifice performance for mobility necessarily and at least want to have an idea of what the implications would be using a laptop. I am hoping the rocket will chew it better then the xeon but i own none of the above so i'm just looking for a consensus from everyone. When people say they can use their trash cans for good dragon performance I am not sure how many cores it takes to make it good, or if it will encode as fast as rocket. To be honest encodes probably matter most for my needs, much more so then full res playback matters to me personally... So any idea what would be the faster encoding option?


Programs I would be using would be resolve lite 11, redcine, avid mc7, adobe cs5, and i may install FCPx but not sure on the last one. I understand some may function better on one machine vs the other, but I can't budget for both and am just looking for what is the better all around option. I would ideally like to stay mac based but wouldn't mind setting it up as a dual boot machine


Thanks guys!
 
The nMPro if you have to go Mac will be far better for encodes than an MBP if encoding time is your primary concern. The Mobile CPU's cannot come close to the Desktop or workstation CPU's with regards to performance. I would suggest the nMPro and deal with the extra gear. A monitor, power source, and TB drive shouldn't be to much to deal with on setup.
 
I think the question is how will a maxxed trashcan (alone, no rocket) perform with transcoding compared to a MBP + mobile rocket-x over thunderbolt...is that correct, Brian?
 
correct, if anyone has the gear to test it please can someone? The thought of going 10k or more in on a super computer is a little much for me so i'm trying to limit the budget to 7k or less ideally and have a dragon coming so i can get that discounted rocket x rate i think if i go that route. i want to stay mac based even if i dual boot for easy prores creation and apple care tech support. i think the laptop will be a lot more functional since i can use it for downloads without power in situations where i don't need a rocket, so its a lot more dynamic...

another thought i have to wonder is how cheap a desktop pc could one get with a rocket x to get even better performance? i'm just not trying to spend over 7k is my main goal if i can help it
 
Brian Merlen said:
correct, if anyone has the gear to test it please can someone? The thought of going 10k or more in on a super computer is a little much for me so i'm trying to limit the budget to 7k or less ideally
Click to expand...

Doesn't the Rocket X cost almost $7000 all by itself?
 
Brian Merlen said:
i think the laptop will be a lot more functional since i can use it for downloads without power in situations where i don't need a rocket, so its a lot more dynamic...
Click to expand...

How long do you think the laptop battery will last when it's powering the laptop itself, the card reader, and 2 bus-powered drives?
 
M Most said:
Doesn't the Rocket X cost almost $7000 all by itself?
Click to expand...

no I have a dragon coming, its 4500 or something like that cuz of dragon deal...
 
joe hedge said:
How long do you think the laptop battery will last when it's powering the laptop itself, the card reader, and 2 bus-powered drives?
Click to expand...


not long at all, but for my own personal stuff where i may just dump to the internal if I'm not shooting a lot at least its an option... its not my main mission at all, just a side thought...


really i am just trying to figure out what would run better...the laptop is more appealing to me but if its going to run bad i'd save my time and not bother
 
If you want a comparison of current Epic-X 5k HD transcodes, then a MBPR with an older Rocket in a TB chassis will transcode around 23 fps and a top end nMP x6 core without a rocket will transcode around 18 fps. In theory if your whole pipeline is TB2, then a Rocket-X would cap out at around 45 fps with either the MBPR or the nMP x6 core.
 
interesting, yea if it worked out like that in real life consistently the laptop seems like the way to go... but i won't only be in redcine so i'm not sure what other on set problems i might have with say resolve lite...tho i read else where jeff said the hit for using one gpu card isn't so bad these days... part of the problem is i want version 11 which i can't score yet to test is the other part...
 
The MBP with rocket X will produce full debayer editorial transcodes very fast (I have seen 60fps for 5k ).. You can't get near that without a RRX. I suspect for doing work in a 'indie way' (without massive time pressure) the nMP maxed out will be the easiest route but if you are renting out your camera and need to turn around rushes fast maybe not....if you explained your typical workflow and biz model perhaps experts like M Most could advise better..

Ps I am getting 55-60fps on 5k with TB1 with a old MBP and a RRX

PPS the red GPU decode still uses CPU for the de-wavelet AND davinci works this way.... Therefore you should always get MAX cores for R3D work when not using a RRX. A six core nMP would not IMHO be a usefull dailies tool on its own.
 
I usually am transcoding while cycling cards typically to prores but sometimes dnxhd and one time I did dpx. Traditionally I have exclusively used Redcine, but this is mainly because I couldn't run resolve very well on my system or any of the systems provided to me, not necessarily a personal choice more so just not having the higher end hardware to really make it run well.

I plan on getting a kit together to join the union with, just for basic on set dailies not a crazy over the top kits like some of the carts I see here. I have been a non union wrangler for almost 3 years have a few hundred non union days under my belt, so I think trying to make the switch now makes sense. I think the laptop with rocket will suit my needs best as far as mobility and fast encodes, I can probably pack it with some small raids in a pelican 1510 or so and call it a day...

Any idea guys what the wait time might be like for rocket x, i guess there are a bunch of dragon guys waiting now huh? Also any idea how decent a rmbp would perform with arri raw or phantom cine files? The red stuff seems like it will be fine with it and the rocket x, but the reality is I could get called on a non red job and end up needing to rent a beefier machine I suppose? I have no control over what i get called on camera workflow wise, though historically its 99 percent red jobs that doesn't indicate it will continue the trend. I imagine most of the work will be short term shoots which is why mobility somewhat matters to me since its going to be commuting involved always so the fact a laptop and external card can pull that off is kind of a godsend for my needs I think...

Would a simple raid 1 hooked to the retina rmbp and rocket x still provide decent fps encodes or definitely should have a raid 5 for the encodes? then maybe raid 1s to hand off to clients at the end?
 
I see your dilemma.. (there will be others better quailfied than me to hopefully chip in)

without a larger sum of money there will be a basic compromise - Epic focussed or other camera focused.. If 90% plus are Epic gigs I'd def say RRX

My half baked suggestion is to find an easy going (not super busy) Epic owner who is just about to recieve a Dragon and RRX... chuck him 50% of the moneny for a RRX (we upgraders have priority on RRX). Share the RRX with them and do him/her a deal on working on their stuff.

With the money you saved go bigger on the computer front... the RRX is amazing but obviously does nothing for any other cameras.

regards

Michael
 
I should have a Dragon myself by end of week or Monday. If the wait list isn't long getting the rocket x shouldn't be too hard, but for all I know it could be a huge wait no idea really
 
No idea on RocketX availability. I ordered a couple with my Dragon updates - day 1 NAB last year - those upgrades are done and no ETA on Rockets… As for a response to your question and what you're trying to figure out, I really don't know what to suggest. You're going to get more punch out of the Mac Pro with the obvious sacrifice in portability. I think I'd recommend the Macbook Pro as it can still work with Dragon footage fine at 1/4 and 1/8 resolution. It gives you the freedom to be more mobile and you can opt for a Rocket later or maybe a second system instead. If you didn't need the portability, then I'd steer you toward a trash can or even and iMac and you can bide your time, saving your pennies for something bigger and better.

You can also take a look at PC/Windows offerings. You can build a system that's just as good, more configurable with better GPUs, for the same or less money. If you buy it from a vendor, it's going to be just as much or more, though.
 
PC does look better everyday... but is there actual reliable pro res creation on it? I have heard about third party solutions, but the reality is most of my jobs are pro res encoding while cycling cards and I just worry about reliability. Also as stupid as it sounds a lot of people I shoot with trust macs more, which is insane now because of the fact its so hard to encode fast enough on set in comparison to say just fully decking out some decent PC system. Supposedly I hear lots of DITs are using trash cans, but unless prores is forcing them to I can't see why they would want to even based on the fact a PC can potentially get a lot more custom and speedy options these days. If the rocket x is going to be months and months away that kind of forces me into a trash can almost or a PC if i can get reliable pro res encodes but I think i'll shoot down to my local apple store to do some tests, they are super excited to get me in their business store so maybe they can at least let me do some decent testing..

also got a call for an F55 gig today this wkend, now that my longterm red only gig is over i really have no clue what they are going to throwing at me is the scary thing workflow wise, hopefully since its a post house i don't need to make the decision immediately and they will throw a cart together for the gig.. this client usually provides one at least.

also do you guys know of any affordable leasing system for computers? like a way that i can always trade in for the newest macs and just pay a monthly fee? if long term leasing is affordable i'd even consider that but i haven't seemed to find anything very affordable yet



Jeff Kilgroe said:
No idea on RocketX availability. I ordered a couple with my Dragon updates - day 1 NAB last year - those upgrades are done and no ETA on Rockets… As for a response to your question and what you're trying to figure out, I really don't know what to suggest. You're going to get more punch out of the Mac Pro with the obvious sacrifice in portability. I think I'd recommend the Macbook Pro as it can still work with Dragon footage fine at 1/4 and 1/8 resolution. It gives you the freedom to be more mobile and you can opt for a Rocket later or maybe a second system instead. If you didn't need the portability, then I'd steer you toward a trash can or even and iMac and you can bide your time, saving your pennies for something bigger and better.

You can also take a look at PC/Windows offerings. You can build a system that's just as good, more configurable with better GPUs, for the same or less money. If you buy it from a vendor, it's going to be just as much or more, though.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Florian Stadler said:
I'm getting realtime playback in Resolve on my fully maxxed trash can with a 6K dragon clip at half res premium. Renders to HD prores422HQ around 24fps at half res premium, 36fps at half res good and 15fps full res premium.
Click to expand...


Do you mind checking redcine as well and doing some outputs (prores 4k, 1080, stuff like that)? This is very helpful! Makes me wonder if the rmbp would be a good option without rocket x (until the backorder is over) at all? seems like if the trash can is doing it so slow relative the rocket x then i am in for a bag of hurt until the backorder is done unless i go full out on a trash can or PC with some impressive specs...part of me wonders if thats not a better solution anyway since i could be called on lots of non red camera gigs anyway potentially...

if anyone has the answer to PC prores encoding i am all ears, but without knowing if its super reliable it just seems kind of scary to use on set. i mean who will even support you if there is problems?
 
yea I'm not even sure what to do based on the resolve issue.. guess that will work itself out though one day... when the dragon arrives i think I'm gonna just buy a bunch of stuff to test with and return as needed until i figure out what the heck to do...im gonna try to post some results on RU assuming i can use it and its not always working on client stuff i can't share
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top