Rocket Fuel...

[Chris Parker]

Here is the workflow I need to make work with Rocket Fuel.

1)Have my DoP, On Set, Roughly grade the footage. A take or two from each setup.
2)apply that look to all the takes that they deem neccesary ON-SET.
3)Render versions of all the footage (2-3 hours per day) to dvd compatible codec 720x480 with pulldown and audio from camera
4) somehow get that look into redrushes to make all my ProRes Editorial Quicktimes (since we can't do prores on windows stations)

I can make this work on the mac via RED Rocket™, but its not a fully developed product, and I have my concerns abuot having a station on set that depends on beta software (RocketCine-X)

-Frank Cueto

When does your shoot begin? If you are having to spit out ProRes files, you are better off going with the RocketCine I think, as you'd have only one station capable of handling your entire job.

I have the newest (unreleased) version of RocketCine-X and it seems to address most of the issues lacking in current release. If you are going to process in rushes you certainly could still apply color looks in RocketCine as it applies RSX files in each clip's folder. Then, when you process those clips in Rushes, your looks will be carried over.

I see Rocket Fuel as an AMAZING solution for anything OTHER than projects that require ProRes dailies.......

 

[Lucas Wilson]

No joy?

-Frank Cueto

Hi Frank,

There are two ways of doing this. The first involves rendering to an intermediary format first. The second is rendering to ProRes directly.

1) RENDERING TO QUICKTIME (not ProRes)

1. Grade in SCRATCH CINE
2. Render out to Quicktime (not ProRes codec)
3. Import to FCP​

2) RENDERING DIRECTLY TO PRORES

An OSX-based system is the only thing that can render ProRes files. The "easiest" way to generate ProRes based on Rocket Fuel is to attach a Mac Mini or a blade (whatever is cheaper) and use Compressor with a watch folder. With that, you can send R3D segments with a LUT from SCRATCH CINE to Compressor and have Compressor render the ProRes files. It is not ideal, but for a Windows-based systems, it is the best thing we have for generating ProRes directly.​

Lucas

 

[Lucas Wilson]

I can certainly appreciate the value of what is being offered here. I work primarily in a file based workflow and don't lay anything back to tape until the end. Since there is no secondary color correction included in the package, what's the added value above using RED Rocket™ and RocketCine-X to create one-lites?

1) Deck control
2) Ability to lay off, frame-accurately, in realtime, to any SMPTE format from NTSC/PAL up to dual-link 2048x1080 HD-RGB
3) Full EDL conform capability
4) ALE conform capability
5) LUT import/export
6) ASC CDL import/export
7) Panel-based grading with Tangent Wave

There are more, but you get the idea.

What are we buying here for the extra $7000 to $12,000 dollars over RED Rocket™? Speed?

Don't know where you're getting "7K - 12K" : )

The MSRP on the RED website for a RED Rocket card is 4,750. Rocket Fuel is $10,999. So.... for the extra $6,249, you are getting an NVidia 3800-SDI, SCRATCH CINE, and all the capabilities that comes with that.

Best,

Lucas

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas why do i need the SDI card? Can i monitor out through dvi or 10 bit dysplay port?

i am not talking about the deal, i would love to have it all but just for clarify...

thanks in advance

You can certainly monitor through DVI or Display-Port. But if you want to do deck layoffs, or attach via SDI to anything, then you need the SDI card.

Lucas

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi all,

In the US and Canada, we will be having events coming up to show Rocket Fuel in Vancouver, Los Angeles, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, and a few other to-be-announced locations.

Dates are not firm yet. If you would like to attend one of these, please contact me offlist at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com.

Thanks!

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
---------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Paulo Emílio]

Hi lucas, is it possible to use plug-ins in Fuel? (Like the raptors)

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi lucas, is it possible to use plug-ins in Fuel? (Like the raptors)

Yes. : )

(sorry it took me a day - needed to verify this)

Lucas

 

[Andrew Benz]

Lucas, where can I get an in depth look at Scratch Cine? I have a lot of questions... though I will do some searches here on red user, I would appreciate it if you had a better on-line accessible cache of information that I could read. I am shopping and looking to do a serious upgrade (for me that is... not for all you big dogs, haha) in this area. Thank you in advance.

 

[Paulo Emílio]

Cool, thats a good feature. Thanks Lucas for your precious time!

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas, where can I get an in depth look at Scratch Cine? I have a lot of questions... though I will do some searches here on red user, I would appreciate it if you had a better on-line accessible cache of information that I could read. I am shopping and looking to do a serious upgrade (for me that is... not for all you big dogs, haha) in this area. Thank you in advance.

Good question...

Right now, if you have specific questions, we can answer them, or you can call your local reseller for a demo.

BUT - in about 2 weeks, we will have some pretty slick online videos and docs that will give you a pretty good idea of exactly what SCRATCH CINE is/does/etc.

But in the meantime, please feel free to email me offlist for any information or call me at three-one-oh five-nine-three eleven-eleven.

(have to write numbers in unusual ways to get around the spambots)

Lucas

Lucas Wilson
----------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[John Jonathan]

Hey Lucas, What about upgrade paths to SCRATCH FINISH?

The retailers I talk to didn't have the exact answers either, since this is all so new. They quoted me an upgrade price on the software, but it was pretty much the same price as the software is anyway, but besides the software price my biggest concern is the Nvidia 3800 SDI card.

I am totally fine with this card for a primary grader, but what happens if you upgrade to a full SCRATCH FINISH? What are the limits when grading or finishing on the 3800 Card, since it has less memory and is slower then the 5800 SDI. What performance or lack there of are we looking at.

Also are the daughter boards compatible? Like if I wanted to upgrade to the 5800 down the road, would I just be able to grab a new 5800 card and use the same SDI Daughter board or do I have to buy a whole new SDI board?

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hey Lucas, What about upgrade paths to SCRATCH FINISH?

The retailers I talk to didn't have the exact answers either, since this is all so new. They quoted me an upgrade price on the software, but it was pretty much the same price as the software is anyway, but besides the software price my biggest concern is the Nvidia 3800 SDI card.

There are very good upgrade paths to FINISH, that are *really* good deals. Please contact me offlist and I will make sure you get the right information.

I am totally fine with this card for a primary grader, but what happens if you upgrade to a full SCRATCH FINISH? What are the limits when grading or finishing on the 3800 Card, since it has less memory and is slower then the 5800 SDI. What performance or lack there of are we looking at.

Less memory = smaller framebuffer, and all that means. There will still be quite a bit in realtime. But you will hit limits sooner than with the 5800.

Also are the daughter boards compatible? Like if I wanted to upgrade to the 5800 down the road, would I just be able to grab a new 5800 card and use the same SDI Daughter board or do I have to buy a whole new SDI board?

3800 SDI daughtercard = 5800 SDI daughtercard.

Best,

Lucas

 

[Kaku Ito]

i want to buy three rocket fuels right now.

Got a couple of major film production jobs coming. I'm tired of none native or not quite production ready workflow. When and where can I purchase right now?

 

[Torrey Loomis]

BTW...we have the bundle up on the webstore, but it generally only works for U.S. domestic purchases:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1389

International orders have to be placed manually since our webstore doesn't auto-calculate international shipping.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

 

[Kaku Ito]

Lucas,

My reach knows no bounds...LOL

Tor

Torrey,

Thanks. Other than Rocket Fuel, I'm interested in some other things from Silverado, so I will get in touch with you.

 

[Christian Edwards]

x64 + Genarts + Tangent Wave = Sweet ! I can keep the RR packaging ?

 

[Lucas Wilson]

x64 + Genarts + Tangent Wave = Sweet ! I can keep the RR packaging ?

Sure, if you want it. : )

Lucas

 

[craigjkharris]

I will admit off the top that I'm going to go on a bit of a rant here. When I heard that Assimilate was going to release a product that is compatible with the RED Rocket™™™™™ I was really excited. I thought that it would be the start of something good... something more affordable and with a better toolset than what RedCineX had to offer. I also thought it would be a product that came as a result of listening to it's customer and potential customer base.

First... here's what I love about the software and what it has to offer.

1. Color grading interface

- I really like the Scratch Cine grading interface along with the capability to use a grading surface. This gives colorists and DIT's a familiar toolset to use ON SET.

2. Conforming & Viewing

- It's awesome to have the ability to apply pan & scan changes to your footage and to view your R3D files with the final delivery specs. Definatly a huge benefit!

3. SDI Output and Deck Control
- This is an obvious one.


Here is where I have some problems with the new software / hardware release.

1. PRICE - "IT'S A REALLY GOOD DEAL!!!" (I disagree)

- For $10,000+, I hoped that this product would have offered more... including
a. Finally being compatible with other platforms including MAC.
b. Let's face it... the RED Rocket™™™™™ is doing all the grunt work. The software and hardware integration shouldn't cost as much as it does.

2. INDUSTRY COMPATABILITY
a. I know that this is a RED site and we're all totally in love with RED but as a DIT, having to pay out over 10G's for software that can't work with other cameras is not a good investment.
b. Having the ability to work with other cameras (Phantom, Wiesscam, Viper, D21) is becoming increasingly more important and crucial. I'm not expecting Assimilate to create software that reads other formats... I'm just suggesting that the price on this software should be lower for DIT's who have to consider other workflows.
c. At this point you can't share color information with other software platforms that can't translate R3D / RSX files. Maybe I'm wrong... please let me know if I am. In the future, will you be able to share color information from the Scratch / RocketFuel as LUT's or CDL files with other grading systems (Lustre, SpeedGrade, etc)?

That's all for now.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi Craig,

First of all - thanks for the feedback! You've clearly given it some thought, and that's cool. Glad you like what you like!

Jumping to your dislikes...

1. PRICE - "IT'S A REALLY GOOD DEAL!!!" (I disagree)

- For $10,000+, I hoped that this product would have offered more... including
a. Finally being compatible with other platforms including MAC.

We stated early on in the thread that this was primarily for Windows-based guys. That isn't everybody - we know that. But it is a huge chunk of people, and we are selling a lot of these to that segment of the market.

b. Let's face it... the RED Rocket™ is doing all the grunt work. The software and hardware integration shouldn't cost as much as it does.

I think maybe you don't understand the combo very well. Yes, the RR card is doing the decode of the R3D files. But the color correction, SDI output, and deck control are being done in the GPU by the 3800SDI. The conform, color interface, pan/scan, reformatting choice, EDL import, EDL sort, Plug-in Interface, and many other things are being done by SCRATCH CINE or the 3800SDI.

There is a ton of stuff being done by all the various pieces of the bundle.

2. INDUSTRY COMPATABILITY
a. I know that this is a RED site and we're all totally in love with RED but as a DIT, having to pay out over 10G's for software that can't work with other cameras is not a good investment.

It is if the vast majority of your work is RED. And that is clearly our target market for this bundle.

b. Having the ability to work with other cameras (Phantom, Wiesscam, Viper, D21) is becoming increasingly more important and crucial. I'm not expecting Assimilate to create software that reads other formats... I'm just suggesting that the price on this software should be lower for DIT's who have to consider other workflows.

We do have software that reads tons of other formats - the full-up SCRATCH package!

c. At this point you can't share color information with other software platforms that can't translate R3D / RSX files. Maybe I'm wrong... please let me know if I am. In the future, will you be able to share color information from the Scratch / RocketFuel as LUT's or CDL files with other grading systems (Lustre, SpeedGrade, etc)?

I feel good about telling you that you are wrong here. : )

SCRATCH CINE can export 1D LUTs, 3D LUTs, and S.Two XML LUTs in industry-standard formats that can be loaded into and understood by SpeedGrade, Lustre, Baselight, FilmMaster, Pablo, and pretty much every software tool out there that can read a LUT.

SCRATCH CINE also reads CDLs and can export a CDL.

Please keep the questions coming. Believe me, that wasn't a rant. You want a rant, I can show you some of my private emails.

Best,

Lucas

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I think maybe you don't understand the combo very well. Yes, the RR card is doing the decode of the R3D files. But the color correction, SDI output, and deck control are being done in the GPU by the 3800SDI. The conform, color interface, pan/scan, reformatting choice, EDL import, EDL sort, Plug-in Interface, and many other things are being done by SCRATCH CINE or the 3800SDI.

keep those rants coming because I'm finally beginning to understand what this is and why I might want it...thanks for the explanation.