Rock-solid support for heavier systems (15kg and up)

[Michael Tiemann]

I have a Sachtler HOTPOD 14 (capacity 25 kg) a Sachtler Video 18S1 (weight 3.3kg, capacity 18kg), RED EPIC Dragon kit (weight approx 7kg including rails, dovetail, QR plate, etc), Fujinon Premier 24-180 (weight 9kg).

So we have 9+7+3.3 = 19.3kg on 25kg-capable sticks and 16kg on an 18kg capable head. The counter-balance system works, and the head can make smooth and controlled movements in all directions. But there is a problem: when I touch the lens, the system vibrates. The resonance is damped, and it's gone after about 3 seconds, but it's not rock-solid.

When I raise the column of the Hot Pod, I get serious wobble when I touch the lens. But even when I lower the column, there's the wobble I described above.

I suspect the problem is related to connections between the Sachtler touch-and-go plate to the RED dovetail to the RED bridge plate. I can see daylight in the two spaces between these three units, cause by the fact that a very front-heavy lens is slightly deflecting these components that are connected together by 3/8" screws.

I know that conventional wisdom says one should never use more than 50% of one's support payload capacity (I'm using 80%-90%), and perhaps that's my principal problem. But perhaps and equal if not more serious problem is the series of connections from the bridge plate to the tripod head. What are the solutions to that? Should I be looking at a pedestal-based system instead of a tripod-based system?

 

[Christopher Mills]

3 problems here:
seeing daylight in between the interfaces is bad
This head is not up to this rig with the cabrio lens
the hotpod system wobbles when the center post is used with this much weight.
so, yes, a pedestal and a beefier head are in order

 

[Serge Tsipis]

Used to deal with such a thing on the rig you can see on my avatar - Sachtler Video 20II + R1MX with Angenieux.
Try to make the whole thing as low profile as possible. Use as many ⅜ screws as possible. Tighten them up. Check plates for play.

Not really much you can do, really. But worth trying before you spend a couple grand for another system.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

The 18 head is suitable for an EPIC with a standard prime or lightweight zoom. However, a lens like the 24-280 is pushing the limits.
While the 18 does have counterbalance, it isn't enough to compensate for a load like that.

Your observation that the setup is front heavy says that the entire setup is wrong. The light you are seeing between the parts is just extra proof.
Get a longer dovetail such as an 18" ET (now owned by RED) http://elementtechnica.mybigcommerce.com/arri-dovetail-2060-2575-18/
That will permit you to balance the load over the center of the tripod head.
There should be ZERO deflection.
Look at adding a lens support. It protects your investment while removing stress from the lens mount.

I would seriously consider a new head that has a sliding dovetail design (such as the Sachtler Cine30HD, the OConnor 2060, etc)
Those would mean a tripod with a larger interface (150mm or Mitchell)
Another option; the OConnor 1060Ds will support 41 lbs and still fit in the 100mm bowl.




If you absolutely cannot afford a new support setup, suggestions:

First, do not use the center column to gain height. A center column is inherently susceptible to shake (amplified every bit you go up).
Spread the legs wide - add sand bags.

Keep your hands off the lens.

If you need to make adjustments, time to consider motors.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I do have lens support and 19" rods. My comment about the system being front-heavy is that the bridge plate fits directly under the camera, which is one end of the load. The bridge plate holds a dovetail which can hold the tripod plate about 8" forward of the camera. The COG is about 16" in front of the camera. The lens support does push weight on the far ends of the rails, but since the fulcrum is mostly under the camera, not mostly under the lens, the whole system wants to roll forward. Buying a longer dovetail will not solve this problem. Although buying a super-long dovetail that will fit into a dovetail-accepting head will mitigate it somewhat (because the fulcrum will shift from the small touch-and-go plate at the back side of the head to more of an average across the dovetail). A real solution would be a second bridge plate that actually sits at the COG, not under the camera.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I'm looking at the Sachtler Cine 30HD (thanks!). Has anybody played with the Matthews heavy-duty DC slider package (http://www.msegrip.com/sliderpckgprodpage)?

 

[Christopher Mills]

I do have lens support and 19" rods. My comment about the system being front-heavy is that the bridge plate fits directly under the camera, which is one end of the load. The bridge plate holds a dovetail which can hold the tripod plate about 8" forward of the camera. The COG is about 16" in front of the camera. The lens support does push weight on the far ends of the rails, but since the fulcrum is mostly under the camera, not mostly under the lens, the whole system wants to roll forward. Buying a longer dovetail will not solve this problem. Although buying a super-long dovetail that will fit into a dovetail-accepting head will mitigate it somewhat (because the fulcrum will shift from the small touch-and-go plate at the back side of the head to more of an average across the dovetail). A real solution would be a second bridge plate that actually sits at the COG, not under the camera.

And here's the clue to an even better solution.
A long mounting/support system that will place the head directly under the cg of the rig will give you the best control and balance on this setup.
so.. long rods, lens support, and a very long dovetail are all good components. and of course, ignore the center post on the tripod. it's useless in this setup