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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Resolution, IBC and 4K +

Jarred Land

Jarred Land

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I just read 2 interesting articles over at Studio Daily. First was their IBC newsletter that starts with "Resolution is king here at IBC in Amsterdam " and then another http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/09/roger-deakins-digital-odyssey-not-in-4k/ .

First article.. we are happy to see our friends at almost every other company enter the 4k Space.. It was getting lonely there for awhile. The more cameras and more projects that are shot in 4K everyone wins. 4k Televisions and Projectors are starting to trickle into the market and we are even seeing laptops and ipads blow past 2k in resolution. This means that the customers are starting to see what most of you have been seeing for the last many years.. that 1080p (and 2k) just isn't enough. Looking around at IBC that message is pretty clear, just as Studio Daily points out.

The 2nd article, with the legendary Roger Deakins commenting on his new film confused me a bit though - not Roger's comments, He seems to get it.. he at least seems to know that he needs to get to 4K and is ending up there the only way he can ( uprez ) .. so that part isn't confusing... But the part that stumped me was the comments from someone at ARRI where that person seems to really think 2K is enough.

Everyone has heard RED scream that 2K isn't enough for years. Hell... when the original Scarlet came out of the oven and we actually shot it.. we discovered 3K isn't even enough.. You guys know where we stand.

So instead of me telling you one more time why we think 4K (and above) is needed.. I thought I would let Arri actually tell you why 4K + is so great.

Yes.. ARRI.

Someone over there did a ton of tests between 2K and 4K a while back and in every test the conclusion was the same.. It really is a great read.

http://www.efilm.com/publish/2008/05/19/4K plus.pdf

Just one of the great take-aways from this article is that ARRI actually calculated the resolution people experience in the theaters... Their diagram shows that even the back row being able to absorb 3K is a great visual.

I hope the person that wrote this still has their job.. if they don't, call me. :)

 
as acquisition format 4k, isn't enough. Any news about 8k full frame 36mm wide sensor, yet? :)
In the meantime, I look forward to 6k Dragon.
 
He he, had read this and was dumb found by their NO to 4K recent stand, I guess they can't produce a 4k without .... stilling it?

But as far as Roger's comment, even so I admire Roger's work, and if He is happy with the grainy UPprez from Alexa or 2K, as keeps him not to far from his Film nostalgia grainy/Noisy look, then is fine, I much prefer the CLEANEST image I can get to start with... ;)
 
I had a chance to see the dark knight projected in 15perf 70mm recently at the Irvine Spectrum. I believe what this says about 8k if you're middle of the theater or closer. Even real IMax and a fresh print wan't enough. Makes a 4k TV a no brainer if you have good or corrected vision.
 
Hummmm.
 
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BillBarnes said:
I had a chance to see the dark knight projected in 15perf 70mm recently at the Irvine Spectrum. I believe what this says about 8k if you're middle of the theater or closer.
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Yup.. I believe it as well. It's interesting the 90 degree field of view for 8k... I have always been a fan of getting as close to a 90 degree fov as i can in theaters.
 
It's always fun to see the engineers get into it with the marketing folks, never the twain shall meet. Their missions are completely different. ARRI marketing is forced to say that uprezzing 2K is "good enough" because that's all they can offer, so they polish the apple. But back home, the guys in the shop are saying no, here is what is needed. It could be said that someone is polishing something else to make it look like an apple. And while both have an "organic" look and feel, I'd prefer the nice red apple.
 
Mark Phelan said:
It's always fun to see the engineers get into it with the marketing folks, never the twain shall meet. Their missions are completely different. ARRI marketing is forced to say that uprezzing 2K is "good enough" because that's all they can offer, so they polish the apple. But back home, the guys in the shop are saying no, here is what is needed. It could be said that someone is polishing something else to make it look like an apple. And while both have an "organic" look and feel, I'd prefer the nice red apple.
Click to expand...

They can keep getting into it with each other for as long as they want as far as I am concerned.... this stuff is priceless.
 
It's usually at this point that someone jumps in and tells us its all about story, and resolution is just one part of it, and a camera is just a tool.


Balls to that, resolution matters. The people who start saying Xk is enough are the people who don't have the ability or skill to develop better sensors. Arri sway wildly between accepting that more resolution is more, and then ramming 2k down peoples throats.

Seriously, saying 2k is enough is like saying there are too many colours and we should go back to black and white because its all about story, and resolution is just one part of it, and a camera is just a tool...

(Epic Monochrome not withstanding... ;) )


Roll on Jims '4k is not enough' post, (12 seconds after the first Dragon released from its cage).
 
Every time I read something like this from such companies I feel 2 things:

-Proud: for working with the only company that is not trying to rob us.

-Shame: for all of them, who already know they are lying and, I'm sure they know nobody can believe them.

Roger Deakins is one of the greatest cinematographers, but sincerely, it seems he is losing his mind.
 
This article sounds like Alexa 4K camera is coming up...

Jim & Jarred, make Dragon 8K !

R
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
He he, had read this and was dumb found by their NO to 4K recent stand, I guess they can't produce a 4k without .... stilling it?

But as far as Roger's comment, even so I admire Roger's work, and if He is happy with the grainy UPprez from Alexa or 2K, as keeps him not to far from his Film nostalgia grainy/Noisy look, then is fine, I much prefer the CLEANEST image I can get to start with... ;)
Click to expand...

Hi Ketch,
Funny you should say that as I happened to be at the Arri presentation at IBC where Mr. Deakins was invited to speak about his experience with the Alexa. It was mostly very positive, this was THE camera he thought was good enough fo him to want to shoot digitally. Call him old fashioned, but he really loves an optical viewfinder. On the whole, his presentation was very positive, of course he is immensely talented but also came off as a nice knowledgeable generous person. I did note a couple remarks though, such as he would like to have a little more resolution (by the way the 4k copy of the new James Bond is uprezzed from the raw 3.2K of the Alexa, not from 2K). He also said he did NOT like the 70mm Imax copy, it was too grainy. I said he liked the idea of adding grain in post, but for the only two digital films he's shot so far (In Time and Skyfall), he chose not to do that because he likes the grain free image. And he went on to add, laughing, he probably shouldn't watch the previous movies he's shot as the grain would probably bother him. I'm looking forwar to seeing Skyfall.

Cheers,
Damien
 
I was at the Arri session. The lack of 4K detail in their reel and especially the "Skyfall" trailer was obvious. The latter was not even good 2K. They should have brought some footage from the 4K DCP upsampled from 3.2K raw. That would have looked (much) better.
Nothing from Alexa there looked as good as the Cronenweth film shot on the Canon EOSC500, processed via uncompressed RAW. That was Red Epic quality. Of course it costs also as much or more with a RAW recorder.
The Red material in the Scratch session was unfortunately all not native 4K as well, but at least usually 2K maxed out.
What I would like to see is Red Dragon 6K upsampled to 8K and shown on NHKs' 8K monitor, versus their own 8K footage. Dragon has far superior dynamic range, but how much would it fall behind in the spatial detail section?
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
It's usually at this point that someone jumps in and tells us its all about story, and resolution is just one part of it, and a camera is just a tool.
Click to expand...

LOL. I do have an HVX to sell. Takers?
 
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