Request for new RED Camera model

[Terry VerHaar]

I think video RAW is the next big thing on camera manufacturers. In a few years almost every DSLR and Video camera will offert some sort of video raw format. The only problem is They need to came up with a workflow to injest the material to NLE in a easy way. Similar to Photo Camera RAW. The day this happen all the benefits we praise about REDCode will be a thing of the past.

Unless they come up with an equally efficient and high quality method of compression, the playing field will still not be equal.

And, of course, RED will just sit around doing nothing while the other companies develop their technology.

 

[Misha Engel]

Unless they come up with an equally efficient and high quality method of compression, the playing field will still not be equal.

And, of course, RED will just sit around doing nothing while the other companies develop their technology.

That is a bold statement and I hope you're wrong...


With the upcoming Blackmagic 12G adapter to SSD's or the DIY 2x$60 adapters you can record lossless 4,6k60p raw to cheap of the shelf SSD's on an ursa mini pro.

Looking at the lowest price/GB red mini mag 960 you pay $ 2.950/960 ~ $3/GB let's assume 3:1 .R3D is most of the time lossless, the price is still $1/GB for lossless raw.
Samsung 850 pro highest price/GB 850 pro 2TB for $ 1.000/2000 ~ $0.5/GB

At 4,6k60p the lowest compression for RED RAVEN is 8:1, that means lossy.
One innovation I would like to see is that RED RAVEN markII get's the same writespeed as the higher end models and is able to compress to 2:1 Lossless with 4,6k60p.

And the ursa mini pro can also handle compressed raw (CinemaDNG 3:1, 4:1) and all flavors of prores (and in the near future DNxHR).

The Apple RED RAVEN kit for $ 15.000 gives a lot of value for money but so does the blackmagic $ 10.000 ursa mini pro kit.


Long story short, of the shelf storage is cheap and knowing RED a little, they keep innovating.

 

[Pierre Le Blanc]

The Apple RED RAVEN kit for $ 15.000 gives a lot of value for money but so does the blackmagic $ 10.000 ursa mini pro kit.

Value for money? 2x Crop, highly compresss RAW, no NDs,EOS mount only, Expensive accesories, etc

Agaings an URSA mini pro kit that you can buy for half of the price.

I think RED is in a very difficult posiitons right now. The under $15K RAW market will be dominated by Canon C200 and the over $40k is already dominated by Alexa mini.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I think video RAW is the next big thing on camera manufacturers. In a few years almost every DSLR and Video camera will offert some sort of video raw format. The only problem is They need to came up with a workflow to injest the material to NLE in a easy way. Similar to Photo Camera RAW. The day this happen all the benefits we praise about REDCode will be a thing of the past.

They are in a way. Cineform Raw was before redcode, and was a lot better. Then redcode upgraded. So, redcofe would have had several years of refinement over old cineform, I imagine including GPU refinements. Cineform was being pushed into a standard a few years back, so maybe it is through and licensable on reasonable terms. I don't know if this includes the raw Bayer version though. But I'll let you know the.nssty little secrets of Bayer that makes it not as good as it seems (hopefully Grahameduesnt get upset with me).

Bayer's Nasty Little Secrets:

1. it compresses to a better ratio for lossless orvisually lossless because it has less information in the image from image loss. (See 2). 4:4:4 compresses to better ratios because it has complementary image information per pixel, from the three color channels (a good win, versus getting extra ratio from image loss).

2. Because each photosite is really one filter color, it affects the accuracy of other colors at the pixel. Also there are variouse photosite interpolation and fillfactor issues. To get over these things they can use a low pass filter to spread the light far and wide accross neighbouring photosites. This smudges detail/contrast/color data a bit, making it easier to compress (as in 1.) but also giving clues to missing colors at the photosite. It was either Arri or Delsa that was doing this). Some do away with the array, but lack the lost information between the photosites, and suffer interpolation artifacts, but may try to get over this by capturing higher resolution and downscaling. But RBG color prism for 4:4:4 just sucks anyway at fast lens speeds.

3. If you are gaining ratio by loss of image information, and having to increase sample resolution, you are narrowing the difference to real 4:4:4 image data. You might as well use 4:4:4 near 100% fill factor with a mild low pass filter and maybe more oversampling. This might still seem a lot more data, until you realise clean, high bit depth 50/60p high res images compress better for those reasons. So once all these things are put together the difference between Bayer and Real Raw 4:4:4, in datarate terms won't appear do much.

And whatever else (please feel free to add).

The Nasty little secrets of Wavelets.

1. It compresses well (requiring unnusual hardware to do so fast at the moment) and especially for an intra-codec, but no better than the post JPG2K (wavelet) jpeg codec compared to it (and likely h264 intra). It has cousins going up to 5D wavelets or so, but nobody around here seems to want to talk about them.


Now, the reality is, if you want something better, Red's Hydrogen, and BM are likely to introduce something before you get something out, and ruin your sales. However if you still want to, there are companies you might talk to, even if you have to get together with people to crowd fund a device based on the Nvidia jetson 1, 2, or upcoming credit card sized arm volta board, with masses of camera input lines, or other mobile chipset or ambarella board, and after market twin dual camera phone modules.

 

[Aaron michaels]

The Scarlet was for consumers and the raven correct? I'm glad they never went fixed lens.