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Request for new RED Camera model

william howell

william howell

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I work for a non-profit... We now get to shoot with two dragons and a scarlet... It's taken us 10 years for my work to purchase them.

My coworker and I agree if we never "upgrade" these cameras we wouldn't care. We LOVE our red workflow... .r3d files... the camera interface... etc... everything... BUT...

Today i'm having to comb through footage from an event I had to document before we procured the RED's... (I hate dealing with .mov files now btw).. But... The camera was a panasonic 4k AG DVX200... it's 4k, so the footage isn't that bad (although it's nothing compared to our .r3d files)... however...

The form factor of those "run and gun" cameras is perfect for some events and I can't knock it..

I know RED's "modular design" is awesome.. freedom to customize rig... blah blah blah.. all great points.. but.. The fact of the matter is, if there were an all in one RED camera with a built in optical zoom lens/ND filters/eyepiece/flip out screen/audio compressor-limiter/shotgun mic that could shoot up to 4k 60fps..... It's a no brainer... RED would have a total market domination with that thing... we'd have at least two of those for the "run and gun" events... As it stands right now, for the rest of time, I only want to shoot .r3d files.

Just saying.

RED revolutionized the Cinema market... Now we'll have RED's in our pockets and snazzy holographic displays... perhaps it's time to tackle the run and gun world.
 
There was going to be a fixed-lens Scarlet back in the day or so I recall from the ancient days of the forum. I think it's still a good idea, though I don't know what the sales would be on that or if it would be easy to service/manufacture, which is very important. I think fixed-lens cameras in general seem to be going away.
 
Yeah they had a prototype made that Joseph was running around with, but they pulled it at the last second and switched it to an interchangeable lens mount. Either way, I'd wait for hydrogen to come out. It should be a pretty awesome modular system!
 
I don't think its something in their plans (i could be totally wrong).

But thinking out loud here, they could do a 5K scarlet-W with an ENG body. Add a bunch ENG functionality to it and sell it for a few extra $$$. People would not buy modules anymore but would still buy their minimags and lcds (still on the ecosystem).
But this might never happen...
 
I don't agree with fixed lens, but a Red equivalent of the Amira for documentary work would be incredible.

@Jared, I'll happily come over to the studio and throw in my 2c worth on what it should look/feel like.
 
I don't think RED should focus on that market, it's crowded already and the margins are low.

I think they should stay on par or ahead of Arri, Sony and Panasonic on the high-end and mid-range camera's for the movie. commercials, etc.. industries who want to pay for high quality. Focus on picture quality as mentioned in this thread http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?160140-Steve-Yedlin-ASC-on-Resolution
Smartphones are killing the low-end 4k market in time, like they did with compact camera's.

A movie is more than just a camera it's also the characteristics of the glass (and a whole lot of other things).
 
I think just having 4K HDMI output and XLR ports or even 3.5 stereo ports built into the bodies would go a long way to having a bigger adoption into ENG workflows without having to pay for a nearly $2,000 expansion module just to monitor footage on non-RED LCDs and record better sound. This is basic stuff and couldn't possibly add too much complexity or heft to the brains as it is. Also, I think it's time to allow 4K HDMI external monitoring and recording at least because while you may not get RAW quality or the higher resolutions RED cameras offer, you can at least get 4K output and without having to buy into RED media which really adds a lot to the purchase price for RED setups which will make a huge difference for smaller companies and new potential RED users.
 
I think there no room in this world for fixed lens cameras. Just keeping it real. Why would you want to have that when somebody who owns a Red has lens they want to put on.
 
After thinking about this, here are my thoughts:

If Red (or anyone else for that matter - Tilta, OMOD, etc) wanted to go after the doc/ENG market a little more, I don't think it even would need a new camera, just a well designed module.

If you imagine something that's a little like the Fincher xenomoph enclosure, but is more a module that attaches to the back of a DSMC2 brain (and potentially underneath as well) and gives you the shoulder-mount form factor of an ENG-style camera.

That module should contain:
- 2 or 4 XLRs with +48v
- hardware audio trim controls
- all the usual ins and outs you see on a base expander - SDI, HDMI, headphones, TC, etc.
- built in (user swappable?) V-lock/AB battery plate plus some kind of built-in capacitor to give you, say, 5 minutes of hotswappability.
- an onboard shotgun mic holder
- a bunch of nato rails and cold shoes to attach wireless mic receivers to

It could also contain:
- some kind of wireless transmitter - preferably one like the Teradek serv pro that can transmit to iOS devices


As well as bolting on the back like a regular module, it should also incorporate a riser plate with 15mm rod clamp and Arri rosettes so you can easily attach your choice of handles to make it a proper rig

It should also be paired with a suitable EVF mount that attaches directly to the side pogo and puts your EVF right where you'd want it for shoulder-mount use. Ideally this mount would work with the Red EVF, but also break out power and SDI for 3rd party EVFs.




Alright. Who wants to make it?
 
While reading this and thinking there was no chance whatever you wrote would be good, this is in fact a great idea.

Perhaps Tremblay can knock out the design in a weekend and get this up on Apple asap.
 
I think Jim is way ahead of you folks only more so. It's called Hydrogen.
 
Carlos Zambrano said:
I think there no room in this world for fixed lens cameras. Just keeping it real. Why would you want to have that when somebody who owns a Red has lens they want to put on.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely. Sony's RX10 and RX100 are terrific, given their sensor sizes. Future versions of these cameras could easily replace system cameras for press photographers. Even now you could shoot the Olympic Games with nothing but an RX10 and you'd have almost all the flexibility that you need in a camera. A similar thing is true for video, IMHO.
 
Also required for this rig is a lens mount with electronic, physical NDs. Don't imagine it would be too difficult - you design a well off to the side of the mount where the NDs sit when out of use, and tiny servos slide them into the aperture as needed. Everything controlled on camera like the NDs in the motion mount are.

Would be much easier on PL than EF, but I reckon it could be done on EF too.
 
Tom Dowler said:
After thinking about this, here are my thoughts:

If Red (or anyone else for that matter - Tilta, OMOD, etc) wanted to go after the doc/ENG market a little more, I don't think it even would need a new camera, just a well designed module.

If you imagine something that's a little like the Fincher xenomoph enclosure, but is more a module that attaches to the back of a DSMC2 brain (and potentially underneath as well) and gives you the shoulder-mount form factor of an ENG-style camera.

That module should contain:
- 2 or 4 XLRs with +48v
- hardware audio trim controls
- all the usual ins and outs you see on a base expander - SDI, HDMI, headphones, TC, etc.
- built in (user swappable?) V-lock/AB battery plate plus some kind of built-in capacitor to give you, say, 5 minutes of hotswappability.
- an onboard shotgun mic holder
- a bunch of nato rails and cold shoes to attach wireless mic receivers to

It could also contain:
- some kind of wireless transmitter - preferably one like the Teradek serv pro that can transmit to iOS devices


As well as bolting on the back like a regular module, it should also incorporate a riser plate with 15mm rod clamp and Arri rosettes so you can easily attach your choice of handles to make it a proper rig

It should also be paired with a suitable EVF mount that attaches directly to the side pogo and puts your EVF right where you'd want it for shoulder-mount use. Ideally this mount would work with the Red EVF, but also break out power and SDI for 3rd party EVFs.




Alright. Who wants to make it?
Click to expand...

Bright Tangerine + HyperChargeBatteries:

EPm7Wvm.jpg


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...tom-Plate-NAB-2017&highlight=bright+tangerine
 
I think video RAW is the next big thing on camera manufacturers. In a few years almost every DSLR and Video camera will offert some sort of video raw format. The only problem is They need to came up with a workflow to injest the material to NLE in a easy way. Similar to Photo Camera RAW. The day this happen all the benefits we praise about REDCode will be a thing of the past.
 
william howell said:
I work for a non-profit... We now get to shoot with two dragons and a scarlet... It's taken us 10 years for my work to purchase them.

My coworker and I agree if we never "upgrade" these cameras we wouldn't care. We LOVE our red workflow... .r3d files... the camera interface... etc... everything... BUT...

Today i'm having to comb through footage from an event I had to document before we procured the RED's... (I hate dealing with .mov files now btw).. But... The camera was a panasonic 4k AG DVX200... it's 4k, so the footage isn't that bad (although it's nothing compared to our .r3d files)... however...

The form factor of those "run and gun" cameras is perfect for some events and I can't knock it..

I know RED's "modular design" is awesome.. freedom to customize rig... blah blah blah.. all great points.. but.. The fact of the matter is, if there were an all in one RED camera with a built in optical zoom lens/ND filters/eyepiece/flip out screen/audio compressor-limiter/shotgun mic that could shoot up to 4k 60fps..... It's a no brainer... RED would have a total market domination with that thing... we'd have at least two of those for the "run and gun" events... As it stands right now, for the rest of time, I only want to shoot .r3d files.

Just saying.

RED revolutionized the Cinema market... Now we'll have RED's in our pockets and snazzy holographic displays... perhaps it's time to tackle the run and gun world.
Click to expand...

They are resistant to making such cameras. I am interested in this area of filming. The solution is likely the hydrogen with it without a module, in a custom rig to emulate what you want and the controls. Approach a company like redrock micro about making what you want. They could make one rig to suite many phones. It could be a water proof enclosure, with or without phone inside, with controls/hand controls through USB, wifi or nearfeild, extra battery and extra storage inside and tap door swappable. You can Kickstarter something like this with them, or as without them an open design anybody in the future to manufacture.

ND filter and extra lens, might not be needed for a number of filming situations.

The normal Red camera is small enough to make such an enclosure for it.
 
william howell said:
The fact of the matter is, if there were an all in one RED camera with a built in optical zoom lens/ND filters/eyepiece/flip out screen/audio compressor-limiter/shotgun mic that could shoot up to 4k 60fps..... It's a no brainer... RED would have a total market domination with that thing... we'd have at least two of those for the "run and gun" events...

Just saying.

RED revolutionized the Cinema market... Now we'll have RED's in our pockets and snazzy holographic displays... perhaps it's time to tackle the run and gun world.
Click to expand...

Put a fujinon cabrio on a ursa mini pro and you have it.
 
ENG or run-and-gun setups are mostly about ergonomy. The center of gravity should be on your shoulder, if the lens you use does not weigh your front down. If you take any recent RED body, you may strip it down to the basics: battery mount, top handle, module to send sound in, module for setting up parameters. You may not need a monitor, as a one-person operation you only need a viewfinder. If you are on a budget, a third-party finder will do the job. Get an ENG lens like the Canon 18-80 with the zoom-rocker handgrip and a vario ND filter and you are good to go. I´d forget about rods and such, as you will need one hand for zoom anyway and the other one for focus on the lens. If you decide to go used gear, you will be in Sony´s FS7 price range but benefitting from RED´s superior system.
 
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