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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rent Rates - your opinions

I am at $1800 for camera 25-250HR, 8 great Zeiss primes, matte box, follow focus, O'con 2575 and CF cards or Drives included.

Others around here are $1200 for camera w/Red zoom, matte box, follow focus, sticks & batts.

More lenses for $1500
 
Renting a 35mm camera package for a job isn't a comparison in my opinion... Film stock, processing, Color Correction & light transfers etc. Far exceeds the camera package rental. You easily spend thousands upon thousands more on a 35mm shoot.

Digital 4K... record on those drives over & over as much as you like the cost never changes. DLT tape to back it up is cheap.

Thus in my opinion... a 35mm shoot is on a significantly higher playing field budget wise. People shooting 35mm aren't messing around... they have much bigger budgets to work with.

Lower costs alternatives such as REDs & other formats mimicking film are intended as such and thus as a whole are all in all, cheaper alternatives.

As I first stated... I'm renting mine only if my tech goes with it... Camera wise the shoot goes smoothly and the gear is well taken care of... About the best insurance policy I can figure.
 
Nashville = $1500, Camera, 6 Superspeeds & Large accessory package, sticks & head. Zooms, wides, swing and tilts and Red Drives are additional.

+ Tech @ 450-550 and kit @ $150 to 250.
 
why even have these online price rental debates. It would be much more useful to talk to other camera owners in your area (like same country/state) in order to find out what they are thinking, and no I'm not suggesting forming a cartel or anything.
 
Sounds like 1500 per-day for basic kit minus lenses, matt-boxes, follow-focus units, split monitors, prestons, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....is the go then.

Sounds fair to me.
If i didn't own them, id pay this without hesitation because of the image quality you get out of it.

I'm sure the guy that lives under his mums house is going to rent his RED camera out for bugga all, because he can, but with that comes very minimal accessories and no backup support on the day.
As they say, a poor man pays twice.

It's like when the Arri SR2 came out, cheap shooting turned into cheap rentals into now a thousand or more sitting on shelves because people thought they could rent them out for nicks.
Problem was, everyone bought one of there own.

I think if you are going to RENT, RENT from someone with backup support and a huge range of accessories. Nothing worse than a camera going down on set and nobody to turn too.

Seen it happen and it's ugly.

By the way, just finished shooing a TVC, all I can say is phaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark these pictures are gooooood!!!
 
Rentals rates vary widely depending on service, market and reputation. Some owner operators and rental houses will have no problem commanding premium prices because they already have clientele willing to go to them because of a relationship. That may be a very different proposition to someone new to the rental and service biz. A lot of it comes down to accessories and knowledge, in the end producers will gladly pay a fair price to get gear and personnel they can count on then to punt at a low ball price and risk their production. There will be market saturation of Red cameras, at least here in Hollywood. But it will be your kit, experience and reputation that will keep your Red off E-bay.
 
Evin, you could not have been more succinct. Beautifully put.
 
kinobairn said:
why even have these online price rental debates. It would be much more useful to talk to other camera owners in your area (like same country/state) in order to find out what they are thinking, and no I'm not suggesting forming a cartel or anything.
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I just wanted your opinion of what you think is a fair price. This is not a trade organisation, and what we say here will never set the price in your hometown, local demand will define the rental pricing. You don't have to debate, just tell what you want for your baby. But in the long term, a concencus can affect pricing. I don't think it's a good thing if the rent price is to low or to high.

However I think it's fair with a small premium as we have supported the pioneers, at the same time as the rest of the business said it was a con. You had a capital cost this year of waiting. Now when the camera is producing great looking footage everybody are interested.

Transparent pricing is good thing for us all - usually it leads to better profits - in this case, better profit for me and my fellow RED owners. Can not say how much I like would see success and great productions for RED and every RED camera owner!
 
Jeff Coatney said:
IMO, anything less than $1200 a day will put your camera in the hands of crews that through inexperience, ignorance or incompetence, could abuse or damage it. What good is a $600 day rate if it only guarantees that at some point your RED gets shipped back to Lake Forest for a tune up. I'd balance the desire to generate income with the need to properly value and protect your equipment.
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Hi Jeff,

I appreciate your concern, but no one walks out of my rental house without an insurance cert and rental agreement in place. I hope you're doing the same. As a result I have no concern about what happens to my gear in the field. I also know my clients very well. My rental house is based on return client business and I keep that at a very high percentage.

The price of any kit has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's experience or expertise. It only has to do with a fair ROI and market demand for that kit. My body package day rate is just that - body only. Once you add in glass and full support, you're well into the 1k-2k per day range. I just like to put all the options on the table for the client so they can decide for themselves.
 
@jeff
"IMO, anything less than $1200 a day will put your camera in the hands of crews that through inexperience, ignorance or incompetence, could abuse or damage it. What good is a $600 day rate "
By all due respect thats nonsense.
The final renting price dont depends on what a system can do. Latest after enough systems in the feeld. It depneds on system buying price and how many people rent it out in an area.
And why a red should be cost more than an other cam in the 25000 $ range.
And again. Rental prices at least in Europe and Asia depents on the rentingtime.
For a rental house it does not make a lot profit to rent out for one day because they have the same work with checkking end so on than for a 2 weeks shooting if professionals rent it and there will no demage.
Eg Ludwig in germany have a rel high daily rental price but a good weekly price if you rent with references so that they can be sure you know what you do.
And at the end the cam is only one part.
Glass light crane normally cover more from your bill than a simple REDone.
I see the basic weekly rate for a set ( RED, drive, ELV, simple REDglass, battery and so on) in the 2500 US weekly very soon.
 
Russell Fogle said:
Good question & good answer... I was wondering the same thing and digging around online and have seen rental rates all over the place from $900 to $1600 per day for this same basic package.

I personally am Only going to rent my RED package out with a trained tech. I've got many professional shooter friends that want to rent it but it's not like handing off an ENG camera or Film camera... There seems to be several nuances about the system that requires a knowledgeable tech on site.

I'm thinking of a package for $1600 you get the camera, tripod, 2 drives, EVF, LCD, Cooke 18-100, matte box, follow focus, plenty of power etc. Macbook Pro and my tech to setup the camera / break it down oversee answer any and all technical questions about the RED system and be able to check the drives and back them up on the macbook.

Figure $400 for my tech and $1200 towards paying back my gear. Seems to be the safest bet that I can figure to make sure all shoots go smoothly and the gear is handled with care.

It's not worth it for me to rent it out and the gear gets banged up & or you get a call and hear that a $20,000 shoot (talent, location, etc.) is in the toilet because they didn't have the camera on the right settings or something. Mysterious Infrared glow, etc.

Let me know anyone if this sounds unreasonable. May sound cheap to some but really the only people I rent to are shooter friends of mine that give me volume of rentals at this rate.

I have a PD-1 Dolly & track coming next week that I'll rent with it for an additional cost... I'll let you know how it works. I look at it as an expense set of Tripod Legs that I can easily move this 47lb RED rig up and down without 2-3 sets of hands wrestling a tripod every time that I want to change the shot.
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Russell, I think your comments and prices are right on - and the prices are quite fair to the producer. Especially at this nascent stage, providing field computers and a tech really help the producer and the d.p.

One question: Do you think it's better to include the tech as part of the package, or separate? How do you handle a long day (say an 18 hr. music video)?
 
I'm renting my RED, with 6 35mm Nikons, O'Connor tripod, hard drive, flash cards, LCD, basic production pack, three batteries, extra handles, other accessories, etc. for $500 a day.

Stephen
 
For me the tech is a "mandatory option" (oxymoron) kind of like the CF Module is for the camera.

For two reasons...

One There hasn't been enough time & cameras on the street for the general shooting community to really know how it works. It's not a ENG CineAlta & it's not a Film Camera. It certainly comes with it's very own special set of nuances & workflow.

Two, the Tech is to not only technically setup the camera and answer any and all questions about it, backup & review footage, but is also there to handle / protect the gear. People just don't treat your gear like you do. What are you going to do every time stuff comes back with a tiny bump or scratch, charge hit them with an insurance claim? No.. They'll never come back. So every little bump & scratch adds up over time and until your gear looks like typical heavily used rental gear.

Keep in mind having a tech on set setting up the camera frees up a lot of time for other people to be working on other aspects, such as blocking shots, lighting, etc... and not building the camera. Also elevates a lot of tension and stress when crews have the answer guy rite on set...

OT works out differently for me depending on the project.

Renters... are you really renting out this system to general shooters and not having people call you in a panic either during or after the shoot because they don't understand something about the camera & workflow?
 
Russell Fogle said:
Also elevates a lot of tension and stress when crews have the answer guy rite on set...
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I assume this should be 'alleviates' tension, not elevates. Otherwise you need to get yourself another answer guy. :bleh:

This is a 'soft' question, but would anyone like to have a guess at how long before the renter doesn't need to provide the Red Tech along with the camera? i.e. How long before the Red workflow is commonplace enough that the knowledge is no longer specialized to the degree it is now (which is because it's just moving out of beta, there are only 1000 or so units in the field, the workflow isn't settled etc.)

I'd be guessing it'll be non-expert knowledge in 12 months, but probably 3 years before it's 'common' knowledge and there's somebody on most sets who knows how to run it (because they've used it lots, not because they've studied up on it).

The twist in the tail of this being - modularity. If it's always being upgraded, you always need to have someone whos job it is to be on the bleeding edge of what's possible/necessary. Maybe never?
 
Russell Fogle said:
If you don't mind me asking rgd have you had many rentals and were the people renting the gear able to fully figure out this new system and work it properly?

I just feel like this camera hasn't been out long enough for the general shooting community to know it well enough & pick it up and start using it without some kind of hiccup.
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Then teach them how to do use this new system. Interestingly, the people who have understood it the most are those who are ardent DSLR users, film users, and those familiar with panasonic P2 workflow.

The community knows the camera. The buzz is there. There have been many feature films done with red at many stages of its evolution.

Have responses ready for any issues people may raise. Understand all the workflow options for every editing/colorist system. Have al the answers ready.

Read these forms.

You will be fine.
 
Shooting a feature is a different story... When you're talking about a project of any substantial size, then likely crews have done the majority of their RED homework before hand...

I agree people having worked with the P2 workflow are probably the most up to speed.

On a side note... Two of the major rental houses here in Miami told me that they get several calls for people inquiring about RED but no actual takers. They've yet to purchase the camera... If they get a rental they'll rent from some of the private owners down here to start out with, and then purchase at some point as the demand grows.

LA & Toronto markets are a completely different considering how many REDs they have and how many people that know the system and workflow...

Alright... We've got waist to chest wind chop... Not pretty but surfable... I'm out of here...

Good day gentlemen.
 
Russell Fogle said:
On a side note... Two of the major rental houses here in Miami told me that they get several calls for people inquiring about RED but no actual takers. They've yet to purchase the camera... If they get a rental they'll rent from some of the private owners down here to start out with, and then purchase at some point as the demand grows.
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Neither did we get any rentals until we got our camera. That is kind of the way it works. People will not rent something you don't have.

And people will definitely not rent something if they cannot test it before hand.

Would you buy a car without taking it for a spin?

There is a large pie there. Just market it right, spread the right word, and you will get your piece.
 
There not telling the "inquiring" callers that they do not actually own the gear. That's all behind the scenes stuff.

Personally I'm very happy I have 8 days booked in a studio already and don't even have the camera for a couple of weeks. Also several shooter friends looking to rent it out w/ my tech... Life is good. No complaints here.

Now seriously I'm out of here, I'm missing waves...

It's great to be in a profession that we all love and have the ability to make a damn good living on our own schedule!

Cheers!
 
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