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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Renders from QT wrappers VS. REDCINE

Offhollywood said:
Out of curiosity ... what is your primary FX applications(s)?
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Well, I haven't done much fx work lately, but most of my experience has been using Commotion, AE, and Shake. I'm hoping for Apple's Shake replacement or I may have to buy Nuke. I'm sure you know of a good one in the works....
 
Curran Giddens said:
Well, I haven't done much fx work lately, but most of my experience has been using Commotion, AE, and Shake. I'm hoping for Apple's Shake replacement or I may have to buy Nuke. I'm sure you know of a good one in the works....
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I wouldn't hold your breath on a new Apple FX application. I am pretty sure you will just see lots and lots of improvements in Motion this year. Nuke, IMHO seems to really offer some kick ass power. I have kept a close eye on Fusion for long time - and it is a fantastic application - but PC only.

Depending on you budget and schedule, you still may seriously want to test 4K to HD pipelines - especially if every shot is VFX - you know, many, many big budget feature films have DI and FX done in 2K - and 2K in 2:40 (the way most people do it) has less vertical resolution than 16x9 [1080p] HD.

But yeah, you can do it all yourself with off-the-shelf applications in 4K DPX. You will have plenty of time during renders to post on REDUSER.
 
From the eyeonline website re:Fusion 5 (you can download a free learning addition - PC only) -

Performance is everything. While most effects companies only ever work at a maximum 2k resolution, Frantic Films composited Swordfish’s acclaimed 550 layered opening sequence effects extravaganza at 6K and delivered it at 4k for film out. Boyd Shermis, VFX Designer and Supervisor for Swordfish, posted a phenomenal endorsement of Fusion on one of the product’s most prominent user groups, Pigsfly.com.

“I’d like to make mention of the fact that our good friends at Frantic Films, with generous assistance from eyeon Software, have literally ‘assembled’ one of the most stunning action-stunt shots ever filmed (and generated) for the film called Swordfish. Suffice it to say that it’s by far and away the most difficult shot I’ve ever designed and executed. It has more elements and tools in the base flow than anything ever seen.”

· Completely multi-threaded to take full advantage of multiprocessor systems, with 100% performance boost per each CPU.
· Enhanced file streaming I/O greatly improves time to load images and sequences from disk, both over network and local drives.
· Render and interactive performance scalable with remote nodes.
· Automatic memory tuning to ensure most efficient use of memory.
· Designed to work efficiently with extremely large files, including 6K and larger.

And from the NUKE website (http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/promo/nuke.html) -

“The speed at which Nuke handles 4K and 8K images is incredible, the 3D features are really impressive and it fits perfectly into our render pipeline, the workflow is fantastic and I just love the way it handles EXR files. Since purchasing Nuke there’s been no looking back.” Heribert Raab, Lead Visual Effects TD, Softmachine.
 
Started using fusion many moons ago . Then switched . Neat app going off current demo I saw. Nuke 5 is looking good by all accounts. 4.7 is stupidly fast even on my MacBook pro . Really want to see what montage brings to Scratch.
 
Offhollywood said:
what would be very cool - and I don't know if it is possible - is if you could cut in RT with the wrappers - but when it is time to render the timeline - you click a button in FCP and that "toggles" the QT codec to ultra-high-quality (2K debayer) - or toggels to a different QT codec (which is ultra-high-quality 2K) - that would be very cool -
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But that's exactly what the FCP RT engine does together with the RED (or any of the supported) codec. For final render it will auto select full quality, but on the timeline you can select a lower quality for faster perf.

When we enable the ultra high quality mode it will tie into this, just as it is doing that today.
 
Rob Lohman said:
But that's exactly what the FCP RT engine does together with the RED (or any of the supported) codec. For final render it will auto select full quality, but on the timeline you can select a lower quality for faster perf.

When we enable the ultra high quality mode it will tie into this, just as it is doing that today.
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I think you need a little help from Apple though, to make that happen, don't you? Even when you guys are able to release the ultra-high quality wrapper, Apple needs to recognize your hook and use it. That's why we currently hsve three QT wrappers generated instead of one?

IBloom
 
Rob knows what he's doing here.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Rob knows what he's doing here.

Graeme
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Sorry if that comes off in the wrong tone Graeme. There's no question in my mind about that, I'm being sincere. I'm just worried that we are going to be waiting for FCP 6.1 before Apple gives you guys what you need on their end. But maybe via the plugin architecture, there is a way such that you can work around those limitations or maybe the hook already exists. Maybe Rob has a branch on the FCP CVS tree, and he of course can't mention that. Let's speculate wildly :wink:

Ian
 
Let's not speculate wildly. That just wastes time and effort. Rob knows exactly what he's doing, as do I :-) No problem with the tone of your post, just that you're heading off into deep water, and I'd like to steer a course for shallow pools.

Let me just say "we know what we're doing". And leave it at that for now.

Graeme
 
The video (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red) on Apple's site seems to suggest that a native FCP solution would be coming.

From the video:
"The ability to be able edit in 4K with ease and elegance."
"There are two distinct ways to work with our 4k files within Final Cut Pro.
The first way is the native Redcode. That's more specific to people doing DI finishes. For broadcast work, that's where Apple's Pro-res codec comes in..."
"You can take 4k files, shot with the camera, plug it directly into, say, a MacBook Pro on the set and see those files in Final Cut Pro and actually edit them."

Now, I work in advertising so I have a decent understanding of spin, but this is claiming the ability to EDIT in 4k, within FCP.
I also understand that sh*t happens and things (workflows) change, but with all the talk emphasized on QT proxies, is FCP going to be a Proxy only solution? Are there plans for a native R3D editing in any other NLE besides Scratch?

Any info to correct my misunderstanding of the FCP workflow is appreciated.

Thanks. I love my camera.

-CJ Roy
Director of Post Production Services, SK+G Advertising
 
Rob Lohman said:
When we enable the ultra high quality mode it will tie into this, just as it is doing that today.
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True. I am just fishing for the FULL quality debayer in QT - of course - I haven't seen the "ultra high quality mode" yet ... so ... I grant you the benefit of my doubt.

I know all this is gonna happen - I just like to help throw coal into the fire ...

The purpose of my original post (I think) is pretty clear - there seems to be some general confusion out there.
 
CJ Roy said:
The video (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red) on Apple's site seems to suggest that a native FCP solution would be coming.

From the video:
"The ability to be able edit in 4K with ease and elegance."
"There are two distinct ways to work with our 4k files within Final Cut Pro.
The first way is the native Redcode. That's more specific to people doing DI finishes. For broadcast work, that's where Apple's Pro-res codec comes in..."
"You can take 4k files, shot with the camera, plug it directly into, say, a MacBook Pro on the set and see those files in Final Cut Pro and actually edit them."

Now, I work in advertising so I have a decent understanding of spin, but this is claiming the ability to EDIT in 4k, within FCP.
I also understand that sh*t happens and things (workflows) change, but with all the talk emphasized on QT proxies, is FCP going to be a Proxy only solution? Are there plans for a native R3D editing in any other NLE besides Scratch?

Any info to correct my misunderstanding of the FCP workflow is appreciated.

Thanks. I love my camera.

-CJ Roy
Director of Post Production Services, SK+G Advertising
Click to expand...

Until I see Steve Jobs talking about cutting in 4K, I'll assume he's busy bricking iPhones somewhere. :whistling:

You can be working with .R3D files, today. That means 4K native material is passing through FCP without being converted first. That's a huge deal.

But FCP can't do a few important things with Redcode, that you still need if you don't have Scratch. Most importantly it can't access the fully debayered image. One more codec advance from Red will bump this up, another notch, and make FCP very viable for finishing many projects that don't need a 4K or 12bit final, or to do secondary color work in that space. You will basically have a "P2 style" workflow directly from Redcode, using a combination od RedAlert and FCP.

Graeme,

I think we base a lot of our bussiness choices on what we think might happen in the next few weeks, or months. I have a client today that will save a lot of time and money if a full quality codec comes out soon. That will make them happy, and make them more likely to use Red again on the project we are starting preproduction on.

In the meantime there has never been any question in my mind about whether you or Rob, or anyone else on the Red team, knows what they are doing. I hope it's clear that you have my respect and confidence.

But the more I can learn, the better off I am, and the more I can push for using Red, which is exactly what I want to do these days.

It's a tough game here, being on an open forum and having things we can't discuss. I think it's great but it also reminds me of some short stories I once read by Franz Kafka.

Ian
 
I fully understand. But it's not wise for us to talk in too much detail about certain areas of the project, whereas for others, we're happy to discuss all day long (well, not that long as we've got work to do, but you get my drift).

I think from Robs posts you can figure that we're working very hard on aspects of the RED workflow right now, and we fully understand the need for the full quality demosaic in the Quicktime codec that Mark mentions above.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
I fully understand. But it's not wise for us to talk in too much detail about certain areas of the project, whereas for others, we're happy to discuss all day long (well, not that long as we've got work to do, but you get my drift).

I think from Robs posts you can figure that we're working very hard on aspects of the RED workflow right now, and we fully understand the need for the full quality demosaic in the Quicktime codec that Mark mentions above.

Graeme
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I can imagine that Red's relationship with Apple hinges on respecting the confidential information you may or may not have about their products. I can a see why my questions then would create a problem. You are making the right choice. Apologies all around. It's like Jim said on another forum, enthusiasm is hard to bridle.

Ian
 
ibloom said:
It's a tough game here, being on an open forum and having things we can't discuss. I think it's great but it also reminds me of some short stories I once read by Franz Kafka.

Ian
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One morning, as the CEO of SONY was waking up from anxious dreams, he discovered that ...
 
ibloom said:
I just got invited to an F23 demo next week Mark. What do you think, should I bother?
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totally go - you never know what you will learn or who you will meet. I go to all that stuff.

I have a standing offer to shoot tests on a fully tricked out F23 package - I am waiting for my ELVIS & MR. BOND replacements and Firmware Build 14.

I'll never shoot anything other than a test on an F23 - that's because we already own Red cameras and we love the quality of the images. But it's always good to test and tinker and learn - and who knows - maybe I'll end up with a project that has some footage shot on F23 - so I want to understand what that looks like - what it's strengths are - what it's weak points are.
 
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