Remind me not to rent anything to this guy :-)

[Jaime Vallés]

We have labor unions because 19th century cola mine owners thought it was just fine to send children down into the pits with no safety equipment...

This had me laughing out loud for some reason! :tongue_smilie: :yesnod::emote_popcorn:

 

[Andrew Kimery]

i dont want the police calling on my family and telling them i was just killed because i was to lazy to safety a 5k hmi.
IAN

Dangerous and reckless aren't the same thing.


-Andrew

 

[ian dart]

hi andrew,

roy kinnear
brandon lee
vic morrow
just three actors who died "accidently" on set because no one said
stop lets think about this..........

ask john landis how he feels about the years of court cases and media scrutiny he went thru after vic morrow and two children were killed on set while the cameras were running.
roy kinnear riding a horse with horseshoes on cobblestones which
fell over and killed him on camera.

brandon lee killed with a "prop" gun....

dangerous or recklesss you tell me...........


dead is dead no matter how it happened.

ian

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

There are 2 kind of people on sets: the safe players, professionals and careful, and the daredevils, the crazy guys, pros but nuts. It's human nature. I think those rollerblade shots are gay. Everyone with a bit of blade experience, wheter it's hockey or wheels, can do that fingers in the nose... 50? well I use to cling to cars or trucks on my skateboard when I was 16 to go places, and trust me, they go really fast! I've also done many rollerblades camera jobs and never got hurt. There's daredevil, and there's stupid. But it's true, some shots can't be made without some crazy stunts. And please don't compare the horse falling on the cameraman to that! One is a little guts doing something a bit edgy, the other is a flat accident. There's a difference between being eccentric and being unlucky. I worked with Besson and if you can't pull a shot, you're in trouble. But still, security is the main concern on any set, for all. Accidents happen no matter what. We can just limit them. Doing crazy shots is an art and a state of mind, or even a way of life for some (basejumpers...)... That's a 2 sided coin. No one here will reconciliates the views expressed. One just has to do what he's comfortable with. And no one is strong enough on a film set to order something dangerous to anyone. But you have the freedom to work with people that might be better persons or personalities to fit your style. There's always someone crazy enough to fill the needs. And thanks to them, they pull up great stuff.

Watch this, it's the short that inspired "Riders":
http://eccentrica.free.fr/argent_content.mov

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Remind me not to rent anything to you either:nono::tongue_smilie:

dont worry, i dont rent my own gear out
but to clear my good name.. i havent yet lit my camera a blaze

 

[ian dart]

hi lewis,

what i was trying to stress was that even on high budget productions where one would assume that safety was of prime
concern people are still killed.

roy kinnear was a british actor whose horse fell on him during a scene, he broke his pelvis and bled to death on set.
the horse wrangler should have known steel horse shoes and cobblestones do not mix..........he does now.

i guess you cant argue with evolution weeding out the idiots from the human race.

an accident is what happens when an edgy stunt turns to shit.

cheers
ian

 

[Brent J. Craig]

One must be very careful as to say, I'll go to the producer and bitch about what the director is about to do, and that will be the last job you will have in the business.. possibly.

Actually you'd be surprised. There are ways to be discrete and tactful, and people are usually very concerned about the safety of their employees. All a producer needs is for their film to be tied up in litigation for a year because of an accident.

I have pointed out dangerous situations before and I will do it again. Professionals respect that. If someone would not hire me because of it than then are probably not the people I want to be working with anyway.

BTW: as to regards the dangerous shots as above, or walking thru explosions of fire while holding the camera, then I suggest not to watch the insane shots for "GAMER"!

I just watched the Gamer footage you linked to. What I see are professionals executing well-planned, well-rehearsed stunts quite safely. Crewmembers are wearing eye protection were necessary, the AD and stunt coordinator have total control of the set, unnecessary personnel are cleared well back, camera operators have spotters. There is even one shot where the camera operator appears to be wearing body armor. Running or skating with the camera are not a big deal.

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

I think this thread is actually more flaming than the actual risks taken there... :chillpill:

:laugh:

 

[Brent J. Craig]

who is marks 1st ac???
that would be so nutty to 1st for him...

is he just sitting at a monitor somewhere sweating bullets?

He's the guy in many of the shots near the camera but not too near, turning the knob on a Preston. (It's a wireless lens control system.)

See how he stays out of the way and keep well back in the more dangerous situations? That is a case where a $250 a day rental (wireless focus) can make the set safer. Heck, I bring mine out for free when I feel it allows me to work from a safer spot.

And yes, I once shut down a commercial shoot for 30 minutes when the black panther we were shooting became difficult to control. With the camera locked off, I was the only one who had to be in the room with it to pull focus. I told the producer the situation was too dangerous and I needed wireless focus. They agreed, the trainer agreed, we sent a runner to the rental house and everybody went home that night with all their limbs. That producer respects me as a professional and continues to call me for jobs regularly.

 

[Andrew Kimery]

dead is dead no matter how it happened.

Dead is dead, but like I said there is a difference between dangerous and reckless. Driving a car is inherently dangerous but millions of people do it everyday w/o being reckless. Stunts are inherently dangerous but that doesn't mean all stunt people are inherently reckless. Many times journalists and documentarians, such as the recently deceased Christian Poveda, put themselves in harms way to tell stories they feel need to be told. Dangerous? Yes. Inherently reckless? Not IMO.


-Andrew

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

hi lewis,

what i was trying to stress was that even on high budget productions where one would assume that safety was of prime
concern people are still killed.

roy kinnear was a british actor whose horse fell on him during a scene, he broke his pelvis and bled to death on set.
the horse wrangler should have known steel horse shoes and cobblestones do not mix..........he does now.

i guess you cant argue with evolution weeding out the idiots from the human race.

an accident is what happens when an edgy stunt turns to shit.

cheers
ian

I agree, and like everyone else here, just trying to pitch in my sensed/nonsensed opinion and reaction. This is a very touchy question and I doubt all will have the sam POV on film safety when it comes to creativity or chance... But globally, I'm pretty sure we all agree on safe is better...

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

On one of Besson's shoot, regardless of safety efforts, a cameraman ended up dead too, hit by a car. On the same film, a dear friend stuntgirl of mine had a car crash in a chase, trying to catch up the other cars as she was too slow, and broke her spine. She was 2 years without her legs... They were all pros and safety was there. Shit happens, sadly enough, no matter what. I did a lot of crazy shots in my DV era, high up, pulled, rollerblading, jumping, etc... They were never very safe, but they were fun although I could have broken my neck. There's always risks in that industry, but they're sometimes no more dangerous than waterskiing or playing ass on some holiday trip, or just renovating your house like roof work... I'd say doing pyrotechnics without the fire department is insane, but being pulled by a car on rollerblades is no big deal, even at 50, especially if the rider is good on blades, which I think he was in this case. Just look at these guys in the Olympic going over a 100 on ski slopes or bobsleighs... I agree a helmet could have made more sense though... I think also americans here will have different approach on this subject, as suing is a bit of a national sport in the US... No judgement intended, but in EU people would just take their own responsibility if they broke their leg, knowing they probably wanted to do the shot their own way, despite warnings or opposed advices... Sometimes you just want to pull the shot efficiently and quickly, without the hassle of a helmet or a cable... Or because you just are convinced it's not required... Like being a bit courageous or daring as men can be when they want to impress others and get the man of the day congrats... It's a very exciting business that can go up your head quickly, even mine sometimes!

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Another view on this: Jackie Chan was famous for breaking every single bones of his body on every film he made, because he wanted to achieve stunts and shots nobody ever did or saw. To a point where no insurance companies would work with him. He and his crew would work without any insurance, knowingly, but were motivated and devoted, regardless their own safety and their consequences. It has built Jackie's reputation as being one of the most amazing action actor and film maker and brought him international notoriety. But in his case, I see his way of life as a "character", a personality mixed with eccentricity and guts. That was him, who he was, and the people around him that respected that and followed, like samurais... I'm pretty sure that now he's famous and rich, and has proper budgets, he wouldn't work that way ever again (and he's not 25 anymore). But that established him. This attitude was rewarding professionally. So is being some crazy Evil Knivel stupid? Or can it also be honorable? Pioneers in any field were always huge risk takers, thus bringing us huge sensations and pleasure. Film making is of course an industry and a set should be considered a safe workplace. But nowadays, safety is so well managed, I'm sure there's a lot more grips that kill their hands, feet and fingers on a set than there are stuntmen getting bruised...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

It is more then obvious that words can and do get taken in context in a complete different way by those that read them, so let me try an say this a bit more clear.

My set is just that, "MY SET", I'm not for hire, and for this I have not worked on the industry even so I have been in it for over twenty years, filmmaking for me, is an art that I must perform absolutely free of restrictions, and for this I made my leaving by working in the Restaurant business, and later Photography business.

I never bring any one to work for me/with me, before explaining to the last detail what I want to do and how I wanted to do, so if they leave other opportunities to come and work for me/with me, then they already knew what they were doing, no regrets there.

When on set I will go to the absolute limits in order to get my shots, but I never did say that I would put any one in danger, but neither would I allow any one to forbid me not to put my self in danger, as it has been and will always be my choice to do as I please with my life, off course I will listen very carefully to what the pros working for my safety and that of my crew will have to say, and listen carefully I will, but just so that I know what I'll be going against to, not to not do it, because they said is too dangerous, as if I think I can do it, well.. I will do IT!!

I have an immense respect for others well been, as I know too well what it means to be in physical pain, believe me I really do know that, having spent great part of my life in hospitals, so again I'm not ever about to make some one do something stupid dangerous just to get the shot, and neither would I, but if it is considered stupid to others but no to me, well then I'll do it.

As far as talk about being lazy, and not want to do things the right way, well let me say this, there is never one right way to do things, not ever! There is always different ways to skin the CAT, and there are always different ways to do things right, and I will not spend stupid amount of money and or time, and or man power just to rig a car and or any location to do a shot that can be simply get done with less time, less man power, and less money, and most of the time even achieving a better shot, and a more original look to the particular scene, giving me a far greater creative freedom to tell my story.

But here, again, I never said that when I considered a necessity I would not rig or put what money time and man power to work if truly needed.

Lastly on my set, and I can say this very loud, as it will always be my set, I will, no matter what share my opinions and listen very careful to those of the ones working for me /with me but they must remember that they are in deed working for me, and it is their job and responsibility to give their very best to accommodate my needs in order to tell my story the way I need to tell my story, and take what they do to the very limit of their possibilities, and surely no one will ever walk away from my set, of this I'm sure, as once again I do make my self extremely clear as to what I expect, and what my goals are, and what I'm willing to do in order to achieve them, and believe me, that the last thing I' m willing to do is injure any one or my self in the name of a shot, but you can be sure that I will stop at the very edge of such fine lines.

So as everything else in life, we each make our own decisions and are free to share our opinions and ways of doing things, but we also must respect the opinions and ways of doing things of others, I do, and always will, but rest assure that I will not allow the opinions and ways of others to come in between me and my artistic view and way of achieving IT!

 

[David M]

"We have labor unions because 19th century cola mine owners thought it was just fine to send children down into the pits with no safety equipment..."

This had me laughing out loud for some reason! :tongue_smilie: :yesnod::emote_popcorn:

It was only the cocaine dust in the air that allowed them to pull 18-hour shifts all the time. Stuff doesn't grow on trees ya know....

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

He's the guy in many of the shots near the camera but not too near, turning the knob on a Preston. (It's a wireless lens control system.)

haha thanks.. i know what a preston is.. and i know that he was using one..

I was talking about the many many many different focus points and action of the camera, and just stating that it takes an excellent 1st to hit those marks with that kind of chaos going on