Regarding the RED-Mini: feature request

[Milan Nikolic]

My wish list for RED Professional Pocket Camera:
- really pocketable size
- fast automatic focus
- optical stabilization lens
- FC or SD cards
- 2K S16mm sized Mysterium
- 10 x built in zoom lens
- HDMI
- mini XLR auxiliary mic
- earphone out
- looks of consumer camera (like Canon HV 10) for less visible shutting in public - very important for my kind of documentary work.
It should be ready for shutting in seconds right out of the pocket but provide high quality images in 2K or, at least, 1080p.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Maybe we should make a different subforum for this Minicamera?
On one side, I think it's pretty sure this is coming, so I think, when it will have its own users, it's better to seperate this.
On the other hand, I realize it's probably much too early for this, and we should first see what kind of camera it is, before we dedicate a subforum to it. Anyhow, it's a suggestion to the moderators.

 

[Laco Zamba]

And my suggestion for RED team is to finish RED ONE first

 

[Eugene]

time better spent

time better spent

I realized that I am spending way too much time trawling through threads on reduser

Me too. I need to go cold turky on this RED addiction. I'll be taking a break from this forum untill after the RED ONE ships, because there will probably not be any PPC updates untill then.

If Jannard posts something on ...... the Red PPC / Mini / Two / WHATEVER IT IS CALLED, can someone please PM or email me

That is a real good idea. I would like it if Jarred sends me an e-mail when there is news on the PPC. Every once and a while I get an e-mail from Jarred and DVXuser. He could do the same for REDuser. That would be great. I want to know anything about the PPC as soon as it happens, but I can't be on this forum every day.

 

[OwenR]

Red 0.5 or what ever its called.

Id like it to

1) 2k

2) Record to tape less format ie Hard Drive or Cards etc

3) Have a decent zoom fixed lense...

4) Price wise lets compete withHVX200 & Z1E etc...

5) to be able to change lenses would probably add significantly to the price...
and then wed buy Red One!

 

[liquidigital]

Sigma DP1 has an APS/DSLR size sensor in a compact body. Where they messed up was with an f4. Just not fast enough for my tastes. But I really can't imagine what a "professional pocket cam" would look like or entail. Anyone have an idea when they're going to release more info?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030807sigmadp1.asp

 

[deepcode]

Hello forum, this is my first post - I hope you all doing well with you reds
I hope I can join the club soon with the red mini .. sorry, PPC - because the big one is to big for me.

Here my wishlist (I have postet this on dvinfo.net, too):

- small, but not too small - lightwight, easy to carry, but big and heavy enough to operate professionally. Maybe a bit bigger then a Sony A1, but smaller then a V1 / FX7.
- please 2/3´´ or aps sensors and a fast zoom glass with 1.2 or 1.4 (it just needs this aperture on smaller focal lengts) to get a small DOF even on indoor shots and high sensivity on low light.
- when use a fixed lens, set the focus to archive a good wide angle (~28mm equivalent) and do a automatic lens protection.
- 2 k resolution is enough, better less pixels and therefore more sensivity!
- A universal storage interface / adapter for different media, which can be updated in future. So shot to CF, SD or whatever cards today, and maybe to liquid holographic crystals tomorrow ..
- mechanical locked zoom ring, autofocus, push focus, mechanical locked focus ring, aperture without steps
- maybe a integrated follow focus ring ?
- OIS
- XLR audio inputs (or some kind of symmetrical audio inputs via adaptor)
- manual and automatic sound level. 4 independent audio channels with 20 or 24 bit and a brickwall limiter would be great!
- free selectable framerate between days interval up to 100 fps or even more, if possible. Please stop this awful "US/EU different version" thing of other companies! Let the user decide if he wants to shoot 24,25,30 or custom fps
- free, independent selectable shutter
- free, customizable cinegamma and color settings
- customizable shot transitions
- HDMI output (10 or more bit uncompressed, selectable raw or with Color/Gamma/DSP processing)
- standard Li batteries from Sony or Panasonic
- mechanical control elements for all important things (gain, shutter etc.), some customizable buttons (e.g. for setup selection)
- very bright LCD with overscan mode
- maybe integrated LED ringlight with (auto)adjustable color temp and brightness
- pre-recording feature: the user can set the cam into a continuous record mode, which stores the last seconds (customizable). Very valuable when you wait for a sudden action, e.g. ligthning, animals, a geysir, ...
- LANC control
- basic, but good working automatic features for point and shoot operation (focus, aperture).
- full external control interface via Ethernet or USB for external Software

price up to 5000 - 6000 EUR (~7500 USD) would be o.k. for me. This is the camera I woud buy once in my life ..

:: www.deepcode1.com ::
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[Priyesh P.]

My list:
Since it's called PROFESSIONAL pocket camera it's never going to have a fixed lens, so an interchangeble lens (PL-mount) is a given.
No autofocus
super35mm or super16mm sized sensor with 2K (4K?)
Overall I'm speculating on something like the Aaton A-minima, a fantastic tool that nicely accompanies "bigger" cameras.

 

[deepcode]

this is a very short list ..

the best would be interchangable AND autofocus. But I guess this would rise the price. Maybe its possible to integrate this features into the glass, like canon does with the OIS. For me it´s not the "professional" criteria to have interchangable lenses, as long as the fixed glass has top quality and covers the range I need. Even a Z1 is professional, altough lots of people make a live with it and do professonal looking work.
Autofocus - for me - is very necessary on this type of camera, because it gives you the freedom to use it without the need to look into the VF.

How do you want to pull focus e.g. when holding the camera over your head in crowd, just seeing the small image on LCD and needing both hands to fix the cam ?

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[Priyesh P.]

this is a very short list ..
How do you want to pull focus e.g. when holding the camera over your head in crowd, just seeing the small image on LCD and needing both hands to fix the cam ?

just like you'd do with an a-minima or a 235. it's done by an assistant.

i mean what everybody seems to ask for is comparable to request a MiniDV cam from arri. It may sound nice at first, but it is not what can be regarded as a companion to a full blown camera like the red. Something with a fixed lens and those awful auto-features is not acceptable for pro-shooters in the areas of features, commercials, music videos etc. and red never intended to step down into the semi-pro or amateur leagues. That's at least what i was reading from the other items they announce:. 4K monitors and projectors.

 

[deepcode]

o.k. so you are happy to have a small, flexible cam but this damm assistant adds additional 75 kilos to stem ..

I guess nobody is hurt by automatic features which can be easily turned off ??
Or is a flip LCD also unprofessional ?
I know some EB people being very disapointed about the fact this is still missing on their XX thousand EUR cam .. such a simple, small thing.

I guess when Red does something small, they do it for people needing a fast, reliable tool even for difficult situations, not only story tellers working in well controlled environment. But we´ll see ..

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[Priyesh P.]

o.k. so you are happy to have a small, flexible cam but this damm assistant adds additional 75 kilos to stem ..

I guess nobody is hurt by automatic features which can be easily turned off ??
Or is a flip LCD also unprofessional ?
I know some EB people being very disapointed about the fact this is still missing on their XX thousand EUR cam .. such a simple, small thing.

I guess when Red does something small, they do it for people needing a fast, reliable tool even for difficult situations, not only story tellers working in well controlled environment. But we´ll see ..

:: www.deepcode1.com ::
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sorry deepcode, wasn't my intention to sound harsh, i apologize.
yes, you're right with the additional weight of an offboard ac/fp - 75 kilo is a very heavy focusing system.

the problem with auto-functions is that it is not always assured that they really had been switched off. you don't always have the time to dig through menus to check everything - and i had some really bad experiences, and if you have unpatient guys in front of your lens things get even "hotter"...

but i never had any problems with a built-in lcd, actually i was a big opponent until i had the pleasure to use a pd-150. now i have a pd-150 for myself...

 

[Mark B.]

I think the RPPC will be something along the lines of the Canon Elph in size, with a small built-in lense of anywhere from 3x to 8x zoom, a CMOS chip (Made by Red but smaller than the R1 chip) that captures 2k at 60p, variable frame rates and configurable auto or manual settings. LCD is permanently shown at the back of the camera (again, like the elph-style digital cameras), and the camera will have both still-photo and video functions. Picture quality will be slightly better than a typical pocket cam, and the video capture will be sent to CF cards using RedCode compression.

I don't think a "professional" camera necessarily needs to have interchangeable lenses. It just has to perform well enough that a financially profitable video can be made with it, which is entirely possible with the spec's I've mentioned. To me, being able to drop the camera in a shirt pocket is the key... traveling, going to concerts, being always ready for events around you, making people more comfortable in front of the lens, it's all possible when the camera is that small.

 

[Jason Murphy]

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but has it even been confirmed that the PPC is going to be for motion picture acquisition? Quite frankly, I haven't heard anything official along those lines, and in fact, if memory serves correct, the powers that be at RED were pretty quick to note that the PPC was NOT a Mini-RED One. The only other thing they said about it is that it was a "Pocket. Professional. Camera." It could very well be a pocket-sized still camera for large format digital image acquisition (as technologically improbable as that sounds), or something along those lines.

Note: I could, of course, be totally wrong about this, and I would love to see a pocket-sized RED camera for motion picture acquisition, but quite frankly, I'm not sure that this is what the PPC is necessarily going to be about.

 

[deepcode]

sorry deepcode, wasn't my intention to sound harsh...
the problem with auto-functions is that it is not always assured that they really had been switched off. ...

no problem
And you are right, I think on my very first project, long time gone, we get a semi-pro, half broken VHS cam with damaged batteries from a student course.
Because of permanent accu panic, we didn´t check the takes - and end of day everything was waste, because the time - and camera data was blended in the video picture!
Another thing was my first project with the FX-1, I forgot to set the gain control to manual and so some takes were taken with +18 db. Fortunately no problems because of this and just a few takes ..

So if auto features then there should be a big RED button to disable all automatic functions savely.

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[Priyesh P.]

no problem
...camera data was blended in the video picture!
...some takes were taken with +18 db. Fortunately no problems because of this and just a few takes ..

So if auto features then there should be a big RED button to disable all automatic functions savely.

That's exactely what I was speaking of!

 

[Mathew Mackereth]

s16 sized

s16 sized

is it just me - or would it make more sense for the sensor to be s16 sized in a pocket configuration?

a "pocket" camera wouldn't be the primary production camera on a film, so surely a larger DOF from a smaller sensor size would actually be a good thing if shooting handheld - or with quick "b" camera setups and no focus puller.

that way it also offers something different from a red one.

...just a thought...

 

[Garth Philpot]

Please hurry on this unit ... I'll take two whilst I raise funds for my red one ... Optimal specs would be 16mm frame size... 2K, body size maybe a little smaller than compact handy cams , but not too small ( assuming this will be for hand held use it may be difficult to stabilize ? ) . A rigid Aluminum (Brushed Black) frame with the possibility of adapter rings . An upscale frame cage to take it from a pocket cam to something for serious Docie work would be great ( envisaging a bolt on cage to allow it to accept better lenses and Mics and Tripod mount )

I know that this would start to encroach on the red one but give us the option of adding accessories, people will thank you for it by emptying their wallets . Also this would be awesome for wet work ( underwater housing please )

give us accessories for sports usage like this cam , but the option of getting it to do some serious work too . I'd pay premium for that functionality...also give us the option of shooting pal or ntsc ... at our desired frame rate .



although that is not even a pro sumer camera the idea is around a CF device that is portable and flexible . it would be nice to incorporate pro features into it too..


Oh... and I know you can make it look a whole bunch sexier than what SI have to offer in this small form factor...

 

[Garth Philpot]

or something like this done professionally

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=4484&d=1190284153




I have one of these for point and shoot and let me tell you the image is crisp ans clear.10.1 Megapixels out of your pocket . Almost pips my DSLR for quality and is a pleasure to carry around . I just hope what they have in mind is more for "video" or digital cinema lovers than it is for stills.

...

 

[deepcode]

Red Mini has landed:

o.k. you have some Months to top this with larger sensors ( 2/3 ) and cheaper media .. otherwise I am sold ..

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