Redvolt Expander vs Tilta B1 vs OMOD XLR 2

[Kyle Kelley]

Anyone have any thoughts/reviews of any of the three above? Looking for some combination of I/O and XLR inputs.

It seems like the Tilta B1 https://tilta.com/shop/tilta-for-red-weaponscarlet-wraven-rig-esr-t01-b/ — is almost to good to be true, which of course makes me a bit wary. I found some posts from a year or so go where folks were having issues with the phantom power, but haven’t been able to find any recent info.

The OMOD XLR 2 seems like a good option, but I’ve also read about connection issues when paired with The Lemo A.

Redvolt Expander seems great as well and the additional hotswap capability is certainly a plus, but of course it’s the most expensive of the bunch.

Any other options out there? Bright Tangerine announced some stuff at NAB 2017, but I haven’t been able to find any other info.

 

[Blair Thornton]

Anyone have any thoughts/reviews of any of the three above? Looking for some combination of I/O and XLR inputs.

It seems like the Tilta B1 https://tilta.com/shop/tilta-for-red-weaponscarlet-wraven-rig-esr-t01-b/ — is almost to good to be true, which of course makes me a bit wary. I found some posts from a year or so go where folks were having issues with the phantom power, but haven’t been able to find any recent info.

The OMOD XLR 2 seems like a good option, but I’ve also read about connection issues when paired with The Lemo A.

Redvolt Expander seems great as well and the additional hotswap capability is certainly a plus, but of course it’s the most expensive of the bunch.

Any other options out there? Bright Tangerine announced some stuff at NAB 2017, but I haven’t been able to find any other info.

Tilta has poor customer support, so this should tell you something, especially how their products are so cheap.

Phil Holland has the OMOD XLR2 (and I plan to get one too), so hopefully he'll chime in on it. From what I read they have the bugs ironed out and it's a solid choice.

As for the REDvolt Expander, I totally agree with you, it's 'too expensive".

 

[Bob Gundu]

There are no Preamps in the Redvolt expander so you rely on the cameras which aren't great. I'm now using the Beachtek product with no regrets as its much cheaper with superb quality.

 

[Ivan Verlaan]

Let's make this 3 Toronto replies in a row... :coolgleamA:

I went for the RedVolt Expander and haven't regretted it for a second!

I purchased second-hand here on RU to help with the high purchase price. For 99% of my work, there is separate system audio, so I'm just getting a crappy wireless hop so that I can hear what's going on / help sync in post. When I need to be a "one man band" and record better audio, I'm using the super-portable Sound Devices MixPre-3 and again just giving a scratch feed to the Red. I've also fed a wireless lav direct to the XLR and it was fine. Audiophile standard? Probably not. But fine for what I needed.

The hot-swapping battery is a TOTAL LIFESAVER. Most of my work is doc, so have the camera running through most of the day. I wasn't expecting that to make such a difference to my workflow... but wow! Yes, there are other solutions for hot-swapping, so you can still achieve this with the other expanders you're looking at. Just so nice to have everything in a single package.

That gets to the main reason I went with Red: it's a first-party all-in-one solution.

I was looking last fall, and this was when WoodenCamera was having compatibility issues, OMOD was being delayed for manufacturing problems (I actually had an XLR2 on pre-order, but after the second missed delivery date, I cancelled), and Tilta will never get my business after the Group Buy disasters here (and reports of bad customer service). So, given that landscape, a first-party fully supported Red-brand accessory was a no-brainer.

The high cost was a tough pill to swallow, but 8 months later, I'm very happy with the decision. The landscape is different now -- the OMOD2 looks good, is smaller and lighter (especially without a Redvolt in there!), and has physical volume control (TOUCH SCREEN SLIDERS ARE TERRIBLE, RED!), so it could be a compelling package now. I can't speak first-hand to it's build quality, compatibility, or preamps... but looks like a good option to me on paper... and I can firmly endorse the Redvolt option, especially if you're working with a pro audio department on-set.

 

[Kyle Kelley]

Ivan, you’re Toronto & NYC? If you’re in the coty sometime soon, could I check out your setup?

I’m planning to upgrade my Dragon to Gemini and am considering selling my FS7 as well. I do a ton of doc work, most of which I’ve been doing on the FS7 (due to ergonomics more than anything). If I were to do so, I’d probably go with the KipperTie Revolva, Fujinon 20-120 — any other pieces of kit that you’ve found particularly useful? A good shoulder mount setup, for example?

 

[Morgan Ryan]

I have an OMOD XLR2. Very happy with it. Lightweight, compact, physical buttons, pre-amp. Great for run and gun, as well as more than useable scratch audio.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

I use the Redvolt Expander and it has changed my experience with the Red camera. Handholding the camera is now a joy as the camera is finally balanced on the shoulder. I am generally running in a production mode so the extra real estate for mounting all the “gack” makes life way easier. The Redvolt puffer battery is a real time saver as the camera boot time is still too long. If I need to make the camera small I still can with only 5 minutes work. I also do not have to put up with eye rolls from sound department when they see no XLR connectors. Other expanders should offer similiar advantages. Your gonna love whatever you choose.

 

[D Fuller]

Thank you for putting this question to a thread. It’s great to hear from people who have used these devices.

Here’s a question that had puzzled me for a while: if the preamps in the camera are not very good, why don't they effect the audio (in a negative way) if you feed audio to the camera from a device with better preamps? (Say a Mix Pre-D or other SD mixer?) or do they?

 

[D Fuller]

I use the Redvolt Expander and it has changed my experience with the Red camera. Handholding the camera is now a joy as the camera is finally balanced on the shoulder. I am generally running in a production mode so the extra real estate for mounting all the “gack” makes life way easier. The Redvolt puffer battery is a real time saver as the camera boot time is still too long. If I need to make the camera small I still can with only 5 minutes work. I also do not have to put up with eye rolls from sound department when they see no XLR connectors. Other expanders should offer similiar advantages. Your gonna love whatever you choose.

Tom, when I look at the specs, I’m put off by the fact that the Redvolt Expander seems to double the weight of the camera. Does that not really matter?

 

[Tom Gleeson]

David,

Yes the camera is heavier but as the Base Expander is 203 grams and the Revolt Expander (no revolt battery) is at 998 grams this creates only 795 gram or 1.75 pounds of extra weight. For my personal usage I don't find this onerous and certainly the better balance for handholding is a net improvement on a front heavy but lighter configuration. As I mentioned if weight is a big issue like in a gimbal the camera can loose the Redvolt Expander reasonably quickly. The Revolt Expander is not cheap and I put off buying one for quite a while but now I have one as the immortal Chuck Heston said "I'll give you my Redvolt Expander when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"

 

[Kyle Kelley]

I guess my main question is how much better is the audio quality of the OMOD XLR2 vs. the Redvolt expander? In general, I work with an audio person and only need scratch, but there are definitely times when I'm the whole crew on smaller documentary productions.

 

[Devindra S.]

I have the tilta b1 rig for my scarlet-w, I got it off of eBay, and I haven't had any problems, build quality is good and there's a lot of ports. I do wish the Hdsdi outputs where independent or that there was some option for customizable linking. I only use in cam audio it for sync/scratch track. I dot think it has built in preamps

 

[Ivan Verlaan]

Ivan, you’re Toronto & NYC? If you’re in the coty sometime soon, could I check out your setup?

I’m planning to upgrade my Dragon to Gemini and am considering selling my FS7 as well. I do a ton of doc work, most of which I’ve been doing on the FS7 (due to ergonomics more than anything). If I were to do so, I’d probably go with the KipperTie Revolva, Fujinon 20-120 — any other pieces of kit that you’ve found particularly useful? A good shoulder mount setup, for example?

Hey Kyle, sorry for the delay... drowning in post-land right now

I made a similar transition from FS7 + C300II to Scarlet-W + C300II about 1 year ago.... Happy to demo my setup & talk your ear off about pros/cons! Just not sure when I'll be in town next. I'm usually in NYC every couple months, so likely in July / Aug? Would be great if we could meet up with an OMOD XLR owner to do some testing.

I don't want to get too far off-topic with shoulder-mount setups -- I could probably write a novel about all that trial and error! The short-ish version of my current setup is: WoodenCamera base plate that attaches to a 12" WC Dovetail plate, giving me a lot of front-to-back balancing play, very quickly, and a large flat surface to rest directly on my shoulder pad. I use one of these cushions attached to ME instead of the camera, which allows more flexibility to change between cameras. It also works nice with the FS7, which doesn't have much padding or surface area.

I use the WC UltraArm system to move the screen wherever I need it (with their DSMC2 monitor cable). Up front, I use a BrightTangerine Misfit (usually clamped on, depends on the lens) and a hand-grip and / or Revolvr Atom to hold onto. You can see a simpler build here, with basic audio and no FF attached.

With a heavier setup, I LOVE the new Steadicam Air monopod. I use a Manfrotto 502 head on there so that I can quickly pop on and off, and it holds the weight very well. Helps to keep fatigue (and resulting shakiness) down over a long day

 

[Matt Beardsley]

I've been using the Redvolt expander for about a year for a mix of documentary, corporate, and commercial work and consider it pretty essential for any situation needing XLR jacks or more than one HD-SDI port. I do a fair amount of scrappy, small crew work and often use internally-recorded sound only –*I find the recorded sound quality over the Redvolt Expander to be pretty darn good. The preamps sound clean to me, but I think the quality of any given preamp comes into play most noticeably when it's being used to add a lot of gain (gain up a signal and a less-than-awesome preamp will introduce hiss earlier and more aggressively). If a sound engineer is sending a signal from a mixer, it shouldn't need additional gain in camera. Wireless packs also have their own gain stage. With that said, I'm not hearing any weird tinny or boxy sound over the Redvolt or an obvious sound quality difference between it and the Sound Devices and Zoom preamps I use for dual system audio.

Being able to drop an XLR cable or two is important for a lot of work we do though, and I use an EVF with an SDI, so the Redvolt's second is pretty clutch.

The Redvolt does add significant size and weight, especially once a battery plate and battery are added to the back. I keep a second body built with a Jetpack or Base I/O for gimbal or quick b-roll grabs. When I bought the expander from Red, OMOD wasn't able to play back audio and wasn't really shipping yet either (was hard to get a clear answer on that at the time). Tilta wasn't really more than renderings either.

Now... if Red would kindly ship Redvolt batteries again, that would be awesome. I've had that big empty hole in the side of my camera for a year with no batteries available. It's something of a running joke on set now (what's that big hole for? snack storage?)

 

[David Anderson]

Can't speak to the other options but I've become a big fan of the OMOD. I shot this test a few days after getting it. Might help you judge sound quality, especially for camera mounted mics for run-n-gun and boom mics for sit-downs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R127hR12CNk

Disregard this audio playback issues I describe. We discovered it was isolated to the pair of old Sony headphones. They worked fine on other sources but for whatever reason did not play nice with the OMOD (or red base expander either). Every other set of headphones we've used with it have worked fine.

 

[David Anderson]

Now... if Red would kindly ship Redvolt batteries again, that would be awesome. I've had that big empty hole in the side of my camera for a year with no batteries available. It's something of a running joke on set now (what's that big hole for? snack storage?)

I have some I no longer use. PM me if you're interested.