Redspace or Rec709 for export to Pro res

[John Fairstein]

Info on color space and gamma space from the Avid folks

Info on color space and gamma space from the Avid folks

There is also some informative info about Color Space and Output Gamma Space with graphs in the Avid / RED Workflow Guide at http://www.avid.com/red/. They present different options for video out and film out.

Hi Folks

I'm just about to start transcoding a batch of Red footage into Pro Res. I plan to use Red Alert for a basic 1st light grade and then use Red Rushes to batch encode the clips.

I'm a little confused however on two settings - Colour Space and Output LUT/Gamma Space.

...

 

[Scott Brown]

Just completed some further testing and my Red Rushes errors were definately caused by outputing over our network. I switched to a local drive and everything works perfectly.:sorcerer:

Still think we BADLY need some documentation to help us navigate through Red Alert and Red Rushes...I'm finally figuring this all out but it shouldn't be this hard or time consuming!!!!

Best wishes

Scott

 

[Johan Pabon]

test with red

test with red

Even with all of the filtering that takes place in Redcine you might find the video still doesn't look as sharp as we're used to seeing with typical video cameras. I would get it to the point where it's as sharp as you can get it coming out of Redcine without artifacts. Then take it into After Effects or similar high quality apps and apply some sharpening. The key thing when downsampling these 4K Red files is to make sure that you find a good balance between sharpness and anti-aliasing. This might require some experimentation with the content you are downconverting to see what fits your tastes. I might start with the following settings in Redcine.

Sharpen - 50%
Detail - High
NR - Off
Filter - Sinc

The NR filter you can try with it enabled and see what it gets you. It will depend on your source material.

If the rendered footage still lacks sharpness you need, then go to the following combo

Sharpness - 100%
Detail - High
NR - off
Filter - Lanczos

The Shake manual has a section that describes the filters and what situations they are good for.

I think I would opt for creating a nice looking image out of Redcine (even if it's a tad bit "soft") and then after your piece is edited, master your SD version in After Effects applying sharpening and scaling. It should give you clean results.

I just tried out working without NR (thought I really needed that) and the Lanczos filter. That's a big improvement. I put the result on http://www.vimeo.com/2156417
Now I'm working on further sharpening. So I tried sharpening with 0.3 in color, because here I can adjust shot by shot easily.
One thing I noticed I can easily exaggerate things. The ability to work with RAW easily makes you want to use too much color.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Nice work Johan. I think you have the right approach going. Look forward to seeing more from you.

 

[Johan Pabon]

Thanks for the compliment Steve. It was much easyer to work with the materials of others when I did not have the Red myself. Now I'm critiziging myself on every aspect of the workflow....
The only way to learn I guess...
Do you think there is a quality difference between sharpening in color or AE?
There's something more to it. I like to find my own style (making use of the most beautiful light, getting personal). I'm thinking of the best approach.
I must say I like the colors when getting into to overexposure. They have a special quality I don't know fom productions with HDV.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Johan, shoot as much as humanly possible with your Red and process as much of that as you can. This will tell you a lot and let you find your comfort zones. We all know the camera is capable of amazing images. Not everyone will agree on how to get there. That's the art of it I suppose. But once you find what works best for you, it will be possible to put the camera into some very cool situations.