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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red's New Charge your Credit Card policy

Rick Darge

Rick Darge

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I don't like this new policy of Red to charge your credit card as soon as a backordered item comes in stock. I've had a few surprises the past few weeks with Red charging my card before I gave out any authorization to do so. I placed a deposit down for the Quad Module months ago, it came into stock yesterday and Red already charged my Credit Card and sent the item to shipping before I ever had a chance to free up funds. Red.. Please go back to the old way of doing business where you get an item in stock, then you verify with the us before you charge the card. That would be much better I think
 
Hi Rick,

I have no problem further discussing the process with you offline so please feel free to email me michaelk-at-red-dot-com, but Brent has posted many times that we are transitioning into a streamline order fulfillment process so that we can stay fluent with the incoming volume of orders.

Also it does state in your order confirmation receipt the following: “For items requiring deposits, the deposit amount will be charged within a few business days. For standard (ie, no deposit required) orders, your card will only be charged once product has been allocated to your order and is being processed for delivery. Please note that orders have a minimum of a 3-5 business day processing time after final payment has been received by RED”

Best Regards,

Keegan
 
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Hey Michael, I think this conversation does belong in public view. Red's policies on how credits and debits are accounted for internally and externally have never been clear or consistent. There has been mystery, confusion, and mistakes on my account sometimes from my end, sometimes from my bomb rep, over the entire course of time I've been doing business with Red. In the end, this has required that I manually confirm how my money is being handled each and every time a transaction is happening. I know that Rick and I aren't alone.
 
This post is very helpful.

Thanks Rick
 
As Michael said, there are countless threads where this is discussed. One day, I was replying on one thread that people were pissed off that we asked them to confirm every allocated product instead of just charging and shipping. And on another thread people asking like OP here. We cannot have one set of rules for half our customers and one set for the other half.

To be able to handle the volume of orders we are currently dealing with, we have to streamline the process. Or else we hire a bunch more BOMB SQUAD reps, raise our overhead, and raise our prices. If we do not evolve, no one wins.

As I have said before and Michael said above, our new policy has hit a snag here or there as we transition, but we are working out the kinks. But the fundamental principle of "when a product is ready, we are going to start order processing" is in place.

BC
 
@Brent you can't win man! Criticized if you do and criticized if you don't. Its fun to see posts come up each time asking for the exact opposite of one another. I say stay the course. Once the order is placed, ship and charge me as soon as possible. I don't want to risk waiting on gear, because I didn't get to email because I am out shooting. Train people to mentally "buy" once they click the deposit button, don't think of deposits as a way of holding in line. Think of it as a way for RED to help you earn interest until the last possible moment. But there shouldn't be this lag to reathorize, you authorized when you hit deposit. Just my musing, and a little support for Red, as we really have beat them up on this one on both sides (myself included for the, delaying asking for that second auth :).
 
It worked great for me. My accessories became available, they charged my card, and they shipped it out. Exactly what I wanted to happen.
 
I have to admit the RED accounting method has been confusing to me. I've had money on deposit for some time and after my Stage 2 camera shipped, there appeared to be x amount of dollars still on account. But then, when my Redmote shipped money was taken from my account. Since the Redmote was part of the accessory package for Stage Two I assumed it would not show up as a charged item when shipped. My Bomb Squad rep explained that when an item is invoiced it is then charged against funds.

I assumed this was a bookkeeping thing. Not being able to speak "bookkeep" I came to the conclusion I do not own the funds left in my account, but they are allocated toward the rest of my back-ordered Stage 2 package.

Personally, I have no problem with charging my card for items when they are ready. But I do hope any changes in bookkeeping that are made will somehow allow me to check my account, see the funds in the account, and in some way designate whether those funds are dedicated toward an item or free for other purchases.
 
...Is way better than it used to be. I hated all the back and forth emails just to say "YES! PLEASE PROCESS PAYMENT AND SHIP!"

To me, when I ordered the item, checked out and gave my CC# to the RED.com Store I was saying "yes, use this card", "yes, I want the item ASAP". I always thought it was weird that I had to confirm something I already said I wanted...that's why I ordered it ;)

Thanks to RED for streamlining this process

-Dane
 
Gonna dig my heels in on this one. You need to be consistent. That's it. My Canon mount was shipped automatically charged to the Epic-X-related credit on my account which is not what you are claiming is your policy. I had to dig to find out why my credit card hadn't been charged when I had the item in hand. Why would that happen automatically?
 
I must admit I too find the Red account notations confusing and my account balances hard to keep track of. (I'm not great at this stuff anyway.) And was recently told I charged on my credit card on file for items that are part of the epic-x stage 2 process. I'm certainly not qualified to speak of book-keeping methods, but just glad to know I'm not alone in finding the Red method confusing.

Perhaps someone could give us bookkeeping-challenged crew a simple lesson in exactly what the procedures are and how items that are part of a package are "invoiced" -- we would feel a bit less in the dark. And perhaps, long term, it would save reps time individually trying to straighten things out.

Apologies if this has been done already. Perhaps someone who knows where, would kindly point us to the thread.

Thanks.
 
RED's accounting system reminds me of -- to name one example -- McLaren's custom car building service. That's not to say it's a bad thing, but when you want a piece of media or a couple of cables, it's a hassle. Think of the RED.com store and more importantly, "My Account" as not really relevant to anything you do with RED. It's basically a way to send a part order to RED as a form, indicating you want to make a purchase. Kind of like an automated email with an inquiry to buy. The form includes your contact info, your payment method, your shipping request, and the part order. RED gets the order, confirms back with you via BS rep, then your card gets whacked and the SO goes to shipping and processing. If the item's not in stock, it gets left open for servicing.

The problem for most of us is that we're used to, say, Amazon.com's system. You see an inventory, you make a purchase, the item gets plucked, card gets charged, it's on the way. Sometimes you get an ETA on an out-of-stock item but there's a clear, web interface for resolving that. Amazon lets us see line item tracking and accounting. On the end of the spectrum, McLaren gives you an overall statement of payments, orders, and deductions and general time frame for deliveries.

Amazon.com's system would not work for buying a custom-constructed, hand-built car and the same has been mostly true for RED. Yet, anyway.

I'm not apologizing for the current system. I don't like it and I think it needs to be changed. But I can certainly understand why it works the way it does and where RED's coming from. I also know RED has made growth strides that are mind-bogglingly fast and the fact that RED is even keeping pace is pretty remarkable. I'm sure it will get fixed, eventually. It needs to for everyone involved. The Scarlet-X and now used One sales open up RED to a different tier of the market that is more attuned to the way Amazon does things.
 
Rob, I will try to address your other post in this section as well.

I know I posted some of the "improve customer experience" stuff we were doing sometime after SCARLET went on sale. Consider this a recap/an update....

* We had hoped to be implementing a new ERP system by January 1. Turns out RED's business model and requirements make this a very complicated process. In fact, the team heading this up call it one of the most complex implementations they have ever been involved with. For the last few months, many people at RED have been pulling double duty - their "normal" jobs and working on the new system (defining processes, creating user stories, testing, etc). With just how unique and complex RED is, we are still a few months away from that being full-steam. Many of the issues brought up by our customers have been part of the thought process here as we develop.

* The next version of RED.com is being developed, and it has many hooks to the new ERP system. There are going to be definite changes in the cart process, the My Account section, etc there. Goals are being able to show the status of each item you ordered. Like, "open", "being processed", "shipped", etc. Also, the product detail pages for each item won't just show "In stock" or "backordered". If backordered, will give you a projection of when we expect it to ship. We also want people to be to print their own quotes from RED.com without having to place an order or contact a BOMB SQUAD rep. Oh, and for people to save their cart.

* Improvements in accounting process. If you have money on your account, that should be used first. If not, then if credit card was method of payment at time of ordering, that card will be charged.

* Another goal in our order processing is if the product is in stock, we charge, then ship. If not, you get an email about 5-7 days before we expect it to be allocated so you have a heads up that something will be ready for shipping and what those items are. For those of you getting SCARLETs shipped these days, that was a pilot run where we are rolling this out manually telling you your SCARLET should be ready to ship in a week or so.

* Yes, we are working on improving the look and functionality of the FedEx shipping notifications.

All in all, you all know we are a lean shop. We have to find ways to evolve and provide better service - but stay lean. Like I said, a ton of people at RED are not only doing their main jobs but are also part of squads thinking about and coming up with ways we can get better. Your points are valid and I hope this post shows we take them to heart.

BC
 
Brent@RED said:
Rob, I will try to address your other post in this section as well.

...

Your points are valid and I hope this post shows we take them to heart.
Click to expand...

It certainly does. Thank you for confirming these things are being worked on. Great detail and it is reassuring.

I have an extensive background in UI/UIX, product design and development, etc. I can certainly appreciate and had already made many assumptions about what happens behind the scenes at RED. Like I said in my original comment, it's a testament that you guys are even keeping the wheels on right now. I see the leaps between my SO's and you guys are getting hammered from all sides. Good problems to have, but there must be some pretty intense compression happening over there.
 
If we ever get out of overdrive or become normal, that's when people need to start worrying :)

Have a great rest of your weekend, guys.
BC
 
Brent@RED said:
* Another goal in our order processing is if the product is in stock, we charge, then ship. If not, you get an email about 5-7 days before we expect it to be allocated so you have a heads up that something will be ready for shipping and what those items are. BC
Click to expand...


Brent,

For your consideration:
Agreed: When an item was backordered and then becomes available, it makes perfect sense to charge the balance due immediately.
Agreed: Send the allocation email.

Modification: Allow the customer to shift the shipping date out if necessary via contact with BS Rep or reply email.

Reason: Many of your customers are small shops or individuals. When we are on location, there may not be a person that can sign for the FedEx package. That puts the package at risk by either remaining with the shipper in a holding area or returned to RDC as undeliverable (maximum 3 attempts).

This scenario happened to me just a few weeks ago - was thousands of miles away on a week long shoot. Could have been a real issue but FedEx didn't pay attention to the signature requirement and left it with a neighbor. We were lucky in that case (the neighbor was trustworthy) but I know that there are more than a few horror stories out there.

It may be as simple as adding a data field in the software alerting the shipping department to "Hold shipment until xx/xx/xx".
Of course, this is all contingent on the customer having paid in full and notifying RDC in ample time - say within 48 hours of the allocation email.

Just a suggestion based on experience.

Really appreciate the work everyone there is doing on this process - looks like you have a good handle on things.


P.S.: This suggested modification / option would apply to backordered items only!
 
Jim Collins said:
It worked great for me. My accessories became available, they charged my card, and they shipped it out. Exactly what I wanted to happen.
Click to expand...

Agreed... how is this any different than any other place? This is what happens with B&H, for instance, when something is backordered I believe. Card is charged when the order is ready to ship.
 
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