REDRocket Dailies for Avid (ALE file?)

[Jordan Livingston]

Hi Everyone,

I'm sure these questions have been asked here before, so I apologize in advance for any redundancies. I have a commercial shoot coming up this weekend that will be transcoding R3D to Avid DNxHD via the REDRocket and as a Final Cut / ProRes guy, I'm a bit unfamiliar with the Avid formats...

I know that REDcine-X has the option to output "Avid AAF + MXF" but the post house is also asking for an "ALE" file. I recall that REDrushes used to export this file, but I don't see any equivalent of that in REDcine-X (obviously, we want to use REDcine-X to take advantage of new color options, and of course, the REDRocket).

Thanks in advance for your advice here. Also, any other advice or cautions you can offer about transcoding to Avid formats that might not be obvious to a ProRes guy would be extremely helpful!

Best,

- Jordan

 

[Jörgen Persson]

I know that REDcine-X has the option to output "Avid AAF + MXF" but the post house is also asking for an "ALE" file.

When you output Avid AAF + MXF you get an ALE file as well.

 

[Jordan Livingston]

When you output Avid AAF + MXF you get an ALE file as well.

It just happens automatically? That sounds... awesome! :-D

So here's another potentially stupid question: in REDRushes, you had to check "make Avid compatible audio." I assume that I don't have to do that anymore since there is no equivalent checkbox in REDcine-X? The audio will automatically be "Avid compatible?" I presume?

- Jordan

 

[MichaelP]

Audio works fine for all systems 3.5 and later.

 

[Chris Parker]

hey michael, any word on if the ALE that rocketcine-X or redcine-X spits out (when using external audio - WAV - synced within the RED software) carries along any of the WAV files metadata so that this could be a viable way to sync sound??

 

[MichaelP]

That is up to RED to update - BWF would go into the SoundTC column with BWF file name in the SoundTC - But that would assume that the media contains both video and synced audio when doing so. Are you asking that it reference a timecode and then syncing is done within Avid?

Michael

 

[D Fuller]

When you output Avid AAF + MXF you get an ALE file as well.

I tried doing this recently and found that I got only the last clip in both the ALE and the AAF. Any idea what's wrong?

 

[Jörgen Persson]

I tried doing this recently and found that I got only the last clip in both the ALE and the AAF. Any idea what's wrong?

You need to output the clips from a Redcine-X bin and not the timeline for multiple clips. Did you do that?

 

[MichaelP]

I use export with selected clips in bin for dailies creation and similar to the REDROCKET workflow my process is to:

copy/move MXF files to Avid MediaFiles folder
Select all AAF's and drag to bin (automatically links. No need to go searching in Media Tool)
Select all clips from AAF import, import ALE and "merge based on known sources (last option for audio on audio tab). Clips inherit all metadata.

Michael

 

[Chris Parker]

they also inherit all sound metadata by doing this michael? is there any further metadata manipulation you need to do in the AVID before cutting your offline then?

or are you referring to picture processing out of red tools only, then syncing your sound using AVID's autosync?

 

[MichaelP]

The tools I have seen so far do not put BWF filename or timecode into the ALE file at this time. It is something we have discussed and they are looking into it. I still prefer syncing in Media Composer since we track the metadata for all downstream post processes. Also, v5 to be shown at NAB has some nice new AutoSync enhancements...

Michael

 

[Chris Parker]

cool. looking forward to seeing those enhancement michael....

 

[Jordan Livingston]

The tools I have seen so far do not put BWF filename or timecode into the ALE file at this time. It is something we have discussed and they are looking into it. I still prefer syncing in Media Composer since we track the metadata for all downstream post processes. Also, v5 to be shown at NAB has some nice new AutoSync enhancements...

Michael

Thanks, Michael - I needed to know this, as the client is certainly expecting auto-synched audio... What about the audio that's recorded in camera? Does that come through automatically when transcoding to DNxHD Avid files?

- Jordan

 

[MichaelP]

Yes, if you choose to keep the audio from camera during the transcode process, it will be part of the MXF media, AAF file, etc. This is great for productions that are not shooting double system and audio captured this way will be used for final mix and master. When shooting double system, there are additional options available to the production that one needs to account for. For example:

1. Audio to camera is mix from audio recorder.
2. Audio to camera is mix while audio recorder has both ISO and mix
3. Audio to camera is used as additional tracks to a recorder

The new enhancements will allow easy and flexible management to these types of scenarios all in a one-step AutoSync process.

Michael

 

[Jordan Livingston]

When shooting double system, there are additional options available to the production that one needs to account for...

Hi Michael,

Thanks very much for your response. All that you say is well understood. I always advocate strongly for a double system. With ProRes files, I know I can "auto sync" all of the external audio sources to the dailies as long as they are BWF files and we have a lock-it on the camera.

In this particular case, we are transcoding for Avid, which I have less experience with. We will indeed be running a double system with lock-its on the cameras, but the audio sent to the camera will essentially be the same channels as what the external recorder is recording. In other words, the double system is a "backup."

My current understanding is that the external audio files themselves DON'T "auto sync" when transcoding for Avid... I simply want to make sure that the internal camera audio at least DOES.

Thanks again for clarifying.

- Jordan

P.S. ALSO, we are probably only sending audio to one of two cameras, but I know the post people are going to want all dallies to have audio synced to the files. So, if the "auto sync" feature doesn't work with external audio files when transcoding for Avid, then I need to know that for sure, and attempt send audio directly to both cameras...

 

[D Fuller]

You need to output the clips from a Redcine-X bin and not the timeline for multiple clips. Did you do that?

Not sure. I was doing tests for my editor, and I don't think I expected that to matter, only the export settings. Does that mean that all of the clips rendered to a folder need to be in the same bin and rendered at the same time to be properly listed in the AAF and ALE?

 

[MichaelP]

My current understanding is that the external audio files themselves DON'T "auto sync" when transcoding for Avid... I simply want to make sure that the internal camera audio at least DOES.

Automatic Sync of external BWF files with common timecode can happen either in REDCINE-X and ROCKETCINE-X tools per the features of those products. In addition, for your workflow, the audio files recorded on the RED ONE camera are in sync by nature of the recording process on set. And those will be in sync during the transcode process and for all intents and purposes, no different a workflow than any HD camera recording picture and sound.

The workflow issue overall is referencing those backup files from the audio recorder if needed. Other than the timecode, there is no other reference to the BWF files when syncing external audio files in RED's tools. Nor is there a relationship when recording sound directly from a mix into the RED ONE camera when on set (not can one be expected). The relationship between the audio synced in RED tools or already native to the R3D file does not exist to any external BWF file or recording at this time. Also, if timecode was different for sync (a frame here and there) that offset would not be reflected in the output of files coming from RED tools.

All of this needs to be taken into consideration for each project. Conversations with sound post need to be done up front in order to protect your ass(ets) from the get-go.

Michael

 

[MichaelP]

Not sure. I was doing tests for my editor, and I don't think I expected that to matter, only the export settings. Does that mean that all of the clips rendered to a folder need to be in the same bin and rendered at the same time to be properly listed in the AAF and ALE?

The way it works from an organizational point of view, is that any single batch process will create an AAF for each clip in an AAF folder, an MXF media file for picture and sound in an MXF folder, and an ALE file for all clips in that process. The user can then rename, organize the output as appropriate for the production. Should you commence another batch process into the same destination folder as the first batch process, the RED team did a very nice feature where the files are added to the original folders and the ALE file is updated with the new clips.

Again, how you want to organize and process dailies and the management of those files is dependent on how you want to organize, backup, transfer, etc.

Just because it's digital, doesn't mean it's any easier! :wink5:

Michael