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Redrock mattebox and FF package - to buy or not to buy

M

MacKenzie Smith

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Hi All,

I'm thinking about getting the redrock mattebox and ff:
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.472981/it.A/id.554/.f?sc=2&category=2368
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.472981/it.A/id.709/.f?sc=2&category=2368

This seems like a reasonable price, but as a noob, I don't know if these items can be used with any of the lenses I might be using.

I currently have the red 18-50, but occasionally will be shooting with nikon mount and lenses or canon mount and lenses. Will I be able to use the mattebox and ff with these without the need for hammer, chisel and duct tape?

Thanks for the advice,

MacKenzie
 
I have the mattebox. Great for the money but the flags have a tendency to fall off! This appears to be a chronic issue.

I often use the mattebox without flags to avoid embarrassment. :blushing:
 
Same with my flags!

I also had to take the swing-away arm and the Rod mounting bracket to n engineer and make up new locking wingnuts. Could not get it to lock off tightly but now after a $100 job it works fine.

But i am about to buy an Arri mmb1 this week to supplement the kit for in lightweight mode:)
 
jimhare said:
I have the mattebox. Great for the money but the flags have a tendency to fall off! This appears to be a chronic issue.

I often use the mattebox without flags to avoid embarrassment. :blushing:
Click to expand...

hmm, that seems like a pretty serious flaw, i mean, their job is to not fall off.
 
Mine have never fallen off, but unlike most people, I only put on the flags when I absolutely need them. For that matter, I only put on the mattebox when I absolutely need it to keep the size and weight of the camera down.
 
I used the redrock on three feature films and it survived them though the flags do fall off. I wish redrock designed them to tighten down with two mini knobs instead of one. I use a bit of gaffers tape in the slits to give a more snug fit as a ghetto solution. For money though, nothing can come close for a swing away mattebox. IF you can do without swing away, the upcoming red mattebox looks like a winner. Looks like it is made out of carbon fiber so should be lighter in weight than a similar sized mattebox.

I am not fond of the FF primarily because it doesn't work with some lenses since the gear arm isn't adjustable the way a studio chrosziel or arri is.
 
jimhare said:
I have the mattebox. Great for the money but the flags have a tendency to fall off! This appears to be a chronic issue.

I often use the mattebox without flags to avoid embarrassment. :blushing:
Click to expand...

Guyz,
You are putting (flags) wrong way, insert into a gap.
 
Kwan Khan said:
Guyz,
You are putting (flags) wrong way, insert into a gap.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kwan for stating that, i would have never thought of doing that...what would i do without people letting me know the OBVIOUS:sarcasm:

There are some design faults with the mattebox but for what you pay it as fantastic. But far from the leagues of the big boys. I got it when i was on a budget and now looking to get something a bit more serious.
 
Kwan Khan said:
Guyz,
You are putting (flags) wrong way, insert into a gap.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you suggest inserting them into the gaps- when I had my RRMB I found that inserting them into the caps caused them to fall off more, not less, as it could not get secure enough to clamp down on the flags. So I mounted them on the outside and that worked A LOT better. It was not a perfect solution as they still fell off from time to time, but it was far less then when in the gaps ...
 
I have and like the RedRock Matte Box, but I ahve the same complaint about the flags.

My solution to the flags falling off? Tighten them down more than you think you "should." This involves pliers and my AC calling over the Key to gorilla grip it.

Its been perfect, since that started.

Another solution I have seen is some people either make their own flags, or drill out additional mount points on the Red Rock flags. I've been sufficiently amused by the Key Grip & pliers method, that I haven't bothered.

As to their follow focus... its great for the price, and frankly it isn't that great. If your budget is tight, its way better than no follow focus, but .. well I own something else

I own a Cinevate Durus follow focus. About twice the price of the Red Rock and worth every penny. Then again, its still far less expensive than ARRI or Chroziel FF.

It is a bit weird though... it only attaches to one rail. It grips the rail so well I can pick up a RED fully rigged. (batteries, lens, LCD, tripod etc.) I found this out accidentally out when a PA knocked over the tripod, and I caught the rig by the FF. I was agog
Frankly, the Red Rock Matte Box and Cinevate FF are serious gear. You can definitely do better... but you have to pay a lot more.

For my regular professional use, the Cinevate FF is just fine. There are features I'd like, especially in the Chrosziel FF. That said, not one of the features is worth the money to me.

I'd rather invest the price difference between a Chrosziel and a Cinevate in a good 3 motor wireless FF set up. I've been looking at the C-motion FF, but am not really ready to buy in any case.

As to the matte box, I'd get the Red Rock. Think about modifying the RedRock flags so they mount more securely.

Spend the difference on filters. Compared to an ARRI matte box, the difference is $3000-5000 USD. That's a LOT of filters.

Filmtools has a great "starter kit" of Schneider filters for RED. The Red Rock filters are decent, and cheap. I'd get their 3 filter kit if I was just starting out a filter collection. I got it and I am pleased as punch. I don't care about the filters deficiencies at all unless I put top notch cine glass behind it.

Well, I've written way more than I planned... hope it helped.
 
Another suggestion & thoughts regarding the follow focus-

The internals of the RR are plastic- so while the unit that I got had no slop when I first got it- after using it with some lenses that were stiffer, it did develop some slop / play / backlash in it since the internals were worn- and there was no way to fix that other then to get a new box. (it was around 1/8 of an inch of slop.) If you use smooth lenses, then I do not see this issue developing as quickly- but know that it is something that can happen.

If you can wait, keep watching E-Bay. I was able to get a killer deal on a mint FF2 - while the financial crisis is still going on there are a lot of good deals out there for people who are looking for some quick cash.
 
If your on a budget.. Go for it,
I would not recommend the RR-MB for hardcore production work, But it is an inexpensive mattebox, that gets the Job Done. ( I found that I really needed a bellows so I can hold a circle pola)
Played with the new RR followfocus recently for about 10 seconds, and it seems pretty solid. No signs of backlash or slop.
 
I have a Cinevate FF and an Arri FF4. The Cinevate is great. Very solid, precise and with little backlash. It won't work with a couple of lenses due to the design but is a VERY good bit of kit for leight-weight use, highly recommend if on a budget and don't regret the purchase at all. Oh yeah, the only plastic on it is the marker ring and gear...the rest is machined metal and as solid as hell.
 
If you are going to use the gear yourself, it´s more than ok, maybe you use it for a couple of years until you are able to buy a Chrosziel, Vocas, Arri MB and then you may sell it. For rental use it´s a bit fragile, but will work too.
Not that sure about the FF... its worth spending a bit more here and go for a better one.
Guido
 
I own the RR MB and the FF... I like them both. But the point is that they are "WAY" less expensive than the pro versions... what, like 25% to 40% of the cost of the big boys? That's a huge deal for most people (Thousands of dollars - depending on the models being compared).

For owner/ops you can treat the RR stuff with basic respect and it will last indefinitely. For "rental", well, we all remember how we treated our first rental car when we were 18...
 
I have the RedRock Matte Box and The Cinevate Follow Focus. They are both great for the money. I thought about the RedRock FF, but based on recommendations from a friend who has one, I had to go with the Cinevate. It works very well with the Cooke 20 - 100mm zoom. I believe that Cinevate has another gear available for lenses that prove to be "challenging" for their FF.
 
I am so glad, other people are talking about the flag issues with the RR Matte Box, i have just been in conversation with them about this problem and they reacted as if i was on my own, and that no one had mentioned this to them before me.?

I bought 2 full RED kits, you get what you pay for, it's not arri standard but it's not arri price either.
 
How much did you spend on the camera and accessories? In the scheme of things spend a bit more and get rid of the head aches (how many lens/filter changes do you do in a day). I had a RRMB for a day. I opened the box, built it and saw that the brow attachment was going to be a pain. I do alot of hand held and vehicle work so this was just not going to work. Sold it the next day.

I then got a Chrosziel 450 which I found used for 700.00 in great condition. It's only 2 stage but works like a champ. Use it with speeds and lenses up to 100mm. Just got the ET 15mm mini rod adpator/plate. Total genius. Goodbye Zacuto jeep. With bigger primes I like using clip ons to keep things light and tight. Considering the rental of Cookes and Ultras, a clip on MB rental is chump change or a throw in.

Another MB worth looking into that can go rods and clip on is the ARRI MMB 1. Film tools has it for 1500.00. At 2x the price of the RRMB I think it's a steal. It's smaller, lighter and can clip on or do rods as well as take 4x4 and 4x5.65. RRMB 4x4 light guard is a joke.

If you go Chrosziel, they have the coolest flexible step down rings that no one else has. Ingenious no hassle light tight that expand or contract to your lens diameter. A must if you use non-uniform still lenses. RRMB neoprene donuts are a bit clumsy and ghetto rig looking.
 
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