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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDray Projector..

Does the 3D version require to units to project left and right eye images?
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There is no "3D version" - every the REDprojector is natively stereoscopic.

You just need to add a silver screen and passive glasses for 3D.
 
How much of a drop off in brightness is there when the projector is displaying 3D?
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Restated: how much lower is the brightness (as measured) and how much lower is the brightness (as perceived).


- What we showed was twice as bright as reported levels commonly available for commercially deployed systems.

- The 3D glasses do cut the light intensity. But the eye / brain is a very adaptable, and we display both eye data.

So quickly moving your glasses in and out of the line of sight there was very little noticeable brightness drop off.


With the REDprojector, it's no longer a dim and muddy and headache inducing experience watching 3D...
 
Any restrictions on screen? Would a Stewart Grayhawk work?
 
Tim Morten said:
Any restrictions on screen? Would a Stewart Grayhawk work?
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Haven't tested that one TBH, but for 2D use probably just fine...

...obviously for 3D use you need a polarization maintaining screen, such as a Stewart 3D or 5D or equivalent.
 
Somebody in Loom thread mentioned theat Red projector works in 8 bit color space. Will be possible to made projector which show 10 or more bits?
 
Petr Dvorak said:
Somebody in Loom thread mentioned theat Red projector works in 8 bit color space. Will be possible to made projector which show 10 or more bits?
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They showed Loom in 2k/8-bit because that was what was working when they opened the show Monday at NAB. Jim promised that if they got 10-bit working before the show closed, they would show Loom in 10-bit.
 
It woud be nice if the projector had the option to display either full-range or legal range.

Will the projector automatically shoot out 16FtL or will we need a meter to dial it in?
 
Elliott S Frank said:
They showed Loom in 2k/8-bit because that was what was working when they opened the show Monday at NAB. Jim promised that if they got 10-bit working before the show closed, they would show Loom in 10-bit.
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Yihaa! :)
 
I was in the first showing on Monday morning. Based on what I saw, it looks like it is LCOS based. Hopefully the final unit has better uniformity. When a black field was show, you could see patches of red. Most LCOS displays suffer from shading issues like this.

I thought the use of a prime lens was clever. The RPPs have great optics. The issue with the RPP is the IRIS is sub-optimal for a display device. My IRIS comment applies to all camera lenses. After a lot of research, the cat eye shaped IRIS has proven to be superior in terms of contrast ratio and black level. Hopefully the final product improves the black level. On some display technology, the use of a dual IRIS improves contrast even further. Sharp prefected this approach. By using a combination of cats eye shaped lamp, and lens, IRIS they were able to increase its static contrast ratio by 4X with only a 1/3 reduction in light output. Its important that the lamp and lens IRIS are correctly matched. DLPs benefit the most because of the high light scatter. In testing, LCOS gets about a 2x gain in contrast ratio with only 1/3 reduction in light output.

Different screen material, such as the Stewart Grayhawk, are tinted. Unless the display has a built in colorimeter, you will need to calibrate the grayscale based on the screen material. Black level / brightness is also a perceptual control. This needs to be adjusted based on lighting condition, etc...

Is it pure laser source or hybrid laser/LED based? I ask based on the rainbows I saw during the credits.

Jim mentioned that they were showing 8-bit 2k per eye and hoped to have 10-bit 4k working on Wednesday. He mentioned they still had ghost busting to do and more de-speckling.
 
Stuart English said:
Sure, in summary -

Lasers provide the projector a very stable light intensity per primary color.

i.e. it allows us to auto calibrate.



At NAB we were displaying a movie graded for P3 and a some clips graded for REC709.

i.e it's native color gamut is wider than either of those.
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Thanks Stuart, Pretty amazing all round. I can see this changing the post budgets on a lot of independent productions.
 
This projector needs to achieve JVC contrast and blacks for me since I'm a black 'fanatic'. Actually I hoped it would be a scanning solution with zero light for black. The first projector to make credits look like letters are floating in a black hole with no support whatsoever. That seems to be as elusive as ever, though. If contrast remains low I'll have to wait for it to improve before I could use this projector. I want something like 100000:1 and better.
 
Michel Hafner said:
This projector needs to achieve JVC contrast and blacks for me since I'm a black 'fanatic'. Actually I hoped it would be a scanning solution with zero light for black. The first projector to make credits look like letters are floating in a black hole with no support whatsoever. That seems to be as elusive as ever, though. If contrast remains low I'll have to wait for it to improve before I could use this projector. I want something like 100000:1 and better.
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Contrast will improve significantly from what was seen at NAB - especially if you saw it on Monday rather than Tuesday.
 
Stuart English said:
This question highlights one of the major advantages of the modular design we applied to the projector.

Traditional designs place the lamp in the projector head, it gets hot, and hence you need to put substantial cooling (fans) there too.

In our modular design, the "lamp" is in a rack mount chassis that can be located a considerable distance from the optical head.


So no "projection box" needed.
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Stuart, I agree this is a great feature.

Question: Is the projection head totally silent and fanless, or does it still contain one or more fans? If it has fans, please keep in mind that for home theater, even subtle humming or buzzing really kills the atmosphere.

Also, I didn't go to NAB, but I looked at some of the photos taken there. It looked like there were HDMI inputs on the back of the projector. I wonder if you have considered putting inputs onto the light engine box. It would be wonderful to be able to make an HDMI connection right in the equipment rack rather than running a long, expensive and trouble-prone cable out to the projector.

I really am interested to see this machine in person. It's still not a viable option for my house at this time, due to the requirement for a special screen for 3D. Perhaps someday, but not soon, since I just bought a new screen.
 
How does the scanning work.

How does the scanning work.

You know Stuart, I'm glad you guys are targeting small theaters. I was pushing for Red to do this before, like to see the little guy helped out. Why I'm at red user, to see Red customers getting good value.

Still, again, how does this projector scan, and any hope of putting in vesa hold frame feature, and vector commands data channel to frame buffer (or scanned if possible) for graphics in light shows?
 
Do we need lasers to do this job, don't phlat leds offer most of the monochromatic advantage at higher energy efficencies?
 
High output LED's can do the job and have before. I have seen prototype LED powerd projection systems that people here in the US thought worked great but was shot down when shown to a group in Japan, interesting really, it was a differance in color perception that some in the test group felt was cultural possibly. but basically it was metameric failure. i think this can happen with any imaging system that uses too narrow of a source spectrum.
 
Question: Is the projection head totally silent and fanless, or does it still contain one or more fans? If it has fans, please keep in mind that for home theater, even subtle humming or buzzing really kills the atmosphere.

Also, I didn't go to NAB, but I looked at some of the photos taken there. It looked like there were HDMI inputs on the back of the projector. I wonder if you have considered putting inputs onto the light engine box. It would be wonderful to be able to make an HDMI connection right in the equipment rack rather than running a long, expensive and trouble-prone cable out to the projector.
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Yes the Display (light modulator and optics) Module is specified to be silent. Auxiliary video inputs plug into the rack mounted Video Processor (REDray player and audio / video circuits) Module which relays those as 4K images to the Display module.
 
You know Stuart, I'm glad you guys are targeting small theaters. I was pushing for Red to do this before, like to see the little guy helped out. Why I'm at red user, to see Red customers getting good value.
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Thanks Wayne. If we can help our customers win, we win too. It's all good.
 
Ben Price said:
High output LED's can do the job and have before. I have seen prototype LED powerd projection systems that people here in the US thought worked great but was shot down when shown to a group in Japan, interesting really, it was a differance in color perception that some in the test group felt was cultural possibly. but basically it was metameric failure. i think this can happen with any imaging system that uses too narrow of a source spectrum.
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Yes, bit off, I was not thinking of their power limitations for something of sizable size. But this shift in the color frequency of oerception is interesting. Across people ina race there should be a shift among individuals, I have a shift between both my eyes. So between diverse races it would be interesting, do we need to specify a minimum spread of frequence for each primary? This might work if there is a problem, and easier than what I am about to suggest, because it might still lead to imbalances. The other solution is to have a group of frequencies, which means seperate bands for each color, balanced so that, at least, the majority of individuals perceive color with more accuracy, due to not individual bands for each group, but balancing between the bands, where the bands may not even be at peak, but positioned so the energy of all bands accumulates to better color for the majority (if not all) of groups. Tricky, but you can just change the frequencies for each region, which might not require a change in recording frequencies (wishful thinking) but of the projection. Here we have another problem of film recording that is probably ignored, but I have contemplated systems that sensor capture a range of frequencies and model a recording of them for latter use. But now a more ideal system comes to mind, and yet another to capture on sensor. I actually previously did come up with a way to record a so read of frequencies seperately, exciting times those days.
 
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