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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDray Player...

Stuart English said:
Yes it is the intent to be able to connect a standard DCP server as an input to the REDray laser projector.
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Hi Stuart,

Just wondering if you guys would ever consider looking into allowing the Redray player to act as the DCP server? It would be exceptional if I could use the projector and player as a way of color proofing a DCP before distribution without needing to setup a seperate server for it - just an idea anyway :)
 
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Jannard said:
BTW... while we can upscale 1080P content to play, it looks just like you would expect.

Jim
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Indeed. This is for legacy / compatibility only, there is no visual comparison to 4K content - even when viewed on a 1080p LCD or Plasma display, let alone projected.
 
paul engstrom said:
RED PASS DRM?????? !!!!! This sounds interesting. Who else is supporting this? What does this mean for content distribution and theatrical applications?

Great stuff!!
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Digital Rights Management understandable. Geographical zones like DVD/BluRay ... please no - SO stupid & retarded!
 
RED PASS DRM?????? !!!!! What does this mean for content distribution and theatrical applications?
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More on this later, but:

- It's extremely robust

- It's very flexible

- It's designed to put the content owner in control.

- You don't have to use it if you don't want to.
 
Just wondering if you guys would ever consider looking into allowing the Redray player to act as the DCP server? It would be exceptional if I could use the projector and player as a way of color proofing a DCP before distribution without needing to setup a seperate server for it - just an idea anyway :)
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As 2K DCP servers (either as a DCI certified standalone device or just a PC with video card) are pretty inexpensive, if you use one of those as the input to your REDray projector you should be good to go for your described application.
 
Stuart English said:
Indeed. This is for legacy / compatibility only, there is no visual comparison to 4K content - even when viewed on a 1080p LCD or Plasma display, let alone projected.
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I understand completely. There is only so far you can blow up a lower resolution signal before it starts to look blocky and ugly.
 
...Sony just released 4K Blu-Ray to the masses and is now shipping players. Yes, they released early.

Really hoping that RED RAY can pull off a coup here.
 
...Sony just released 4K Blu-Ray to the masses and is now shipping players.
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That's misleading. They did not release a 4k Blu-ray player. They released a Blu-ray player that can scale to 4k. Big difference.At this point the scaling in their player and their 4k display looks about the same. Once someone implements the new smoothing algorithm from DVDO (ABT, now Silicon Image), then you will see a big improvement in HD scaled to 4k. Not the best name for the algorithm, but the results are great. It removes aliasing along diagonals. This is important when you scale an image up >2x. They also have a non-ringing scaling engine. Something the Sony does not have. I beta tested the algorithm a few of years ago. It would have been in a product by now, but that all changed when Silicon Image aquired ABT. Here are a couple sample images.
Smoothing_01.jpg
Smoothing_02.jpg
 

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Yeah, you're right. Oops. Got ahead of myself... Didn't realize that they're still talking about the S790 player. Which is interesting... Interesting because it's already been available in the channel since late February, so apparently it was released and then had an official release at a later date? WTF? Or was this the launch that made it officially available in N. America?

That will teach me to post before investigating.
 
BDA has already formed it over a year ago (or for I've been told, or misinformed as may be) and Sony has already demoed lab prototypes, not just up-scaling players. Their "4K" is QFHD 3840x2160. They were playing this up at CES, but only the upscaling player was shown, saying Blu-4k would launch by the end of the year along with their 4K HDTVs. At NAB the 4K panels were there, but the 4K Blu-Ray, even the upscaling player, was curiously missing. Their 4K consumer/prosumer display looked like crap though. One of the demos had an 8K-wide image stitched across two displays showing a soccer game. Nice resolution, but the display panels had terrible color and were very milky and washed out with generally poor response time. Some of the worst-looking 4K LCDs on the show floor, IMO.
 
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Anti piracy Red disk.

Anti piracy Red disk.

Richard Fox said:
https://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_.../release/62908.html?CSRT=10560350614581982014

Press release states that Sony released a Blu-ray player with ability to upscale HD content to 4K. Remains to be seen if future firmware upgrade will enable playback of 4K Blu-ray content.
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Doesn't state upgradability to 4k pkayback by the looks of it, unfortunately. I imagine they are waiting for the ps4, sets, h265 and or new medium disk, because h264 can handle it now, specs have gone from 60 or so Mb/s up for 4k comoressiin, 144 is a nice figure, but half that might look acceptable. We were sold bluray on it's multiple layered/future density, but how much of that have we seen, surely something is priven now tat can handle 60+MB/s.

Red really missed out with the redray red laser disc thing, because some years back a researcher devised a new me third of recording on DVD that could achieve 100GB on a normal player with a firmware update, or some such big number. I think it was by carrying the angle of the recording, or some such thing. If you look at it, a pretty pirating unfriendly disc, as you can playback but virtually need it to go through a stamping plant to record for now. You can also make bluray discs with pirated copies, refuse to play on it, under agreement, even on 4k BD. It would give Red room for the big picture, 8k in 100GB. I hope I'm not getting too ahead of myself again, but I would see the guy.
 
There I go again, forgetting. H265, gives you an extra 50% compression over h264, not much, but at how much more processing power? How dies that ricessing power in H265, or h264, at 4k compared Redray?

The most important question I am interested in is when will details of how the codec works and type, be announced, Stuart. I do some heavy design and love this stuff, you sit down and work on it and all is revealed, then some team a decade or two latter finally figures it out. So comoaring this is interesting, because not only is the compression range I'm considering huge, but the pridessing for that compression is small. I have been looking into techniques applicable to tens of thousands to one compression of data, I, at this stage, don't think there will be much better than that unless the data is conducive (a blank frame for example).
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Doesn't state upgradability to 4k pkayback by the looks of it, unfortunately. I imagine they are waiting for the ps4, sets, h265 and or new medium disk, because h264 can handle it now, specs have gone from 60 or so Mb/s up for 4k comoressiin, 144 is a nice figure, but half that might look acceptable. We were sold bluray on it's multiple layered/future density, but how much of that have we seen, surely something is priven now tat can handle 60+MB/s.

Red really missed out with the redray red laser disc thing, because some years back a researcher devised a new me third of recording on DVD that could achieve 100GB on a normal player with a firmware update, or some such big number. I think it was by carrying the angle of the recording, or some such thing. If you look at it, a pretty pirating unfriendly disc, as you can playback but virtually need it to go through a stamping plant to record for now. You can also make bluray discs with pirated copies, refuse to play on it, under agreement, even on 4k BD. It would give Red room for the big picture, 8k in 100GB. I hope I'm not getting too ahead of myself again, but I would see the guy.
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Appreciate your insight and comments Wayne.

All I can say is we dropped optical disk from our plans as relying on delivery via physical media for content delivery is a recipe for economic disaster.
 
Stuart English said:
All I can say is we dropped optical disk from our plans as relying on delivery via physical media for content delivery is a recipe for economic disaster.
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That being said, DVDs, BRs and CDs make great gifts. Its nice to hold something in your hand sometimes, with liner notes and art.
I do appreciate the economic model though. In an ideal world, both would be possible.
It should make a great companion to my Oppo BR player.
 
Stuart English said:
Appreciate your insight and comments Wayne.

All I can say is we dropped optical disk from our plans as relying on delivery via physical media for content delivery is a recipe for economic disaster.
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Maybe yes, it is great for rentals, but people may be prepared to pay ten times more to add a physical copy of something good too their collection, versus renting or a down load version (note, I did not say the down load version was worth much more than a rental). So, the best of both worlds, I ussually rent or watch before I buy anything, so you could get two hits that way, the latter much better. It is simple, watch, then press here to order for $10 afterwards. There are ways to make money. (safe guards: new movies you don't want to sell yet, one month cooling off period, then you are charged and it ships, so addicts can decide to cull some of the 20-40 movies they have ordered). Could be used for older movies too, unless they hit a week or express order button. Because production and distribution is centralised, very low costs are possible ($5 postage for one or two disks, $10 postage for up to ten disks). Would that seem more profitable Stuart? Believe me, I have considered these things to set up distribution business models for my own product designs.
 
Quality matters?!?...

Quality matters?!?...

There are many ways to package and distribute content, with IP delivery seemingly destined to be king. I just hope the next generation of compression technology and bandwidth apportionment practices makes image quality a higher priority than in the current environment. MPEG-2 is a decent codec but it was never designed for the level of compression commonly in use today where 1080HD signals are stuffed into 1 megabit feeds :puke:.

Whether its the new codec underpinning RedRay or something else, I see the next year or two as a critical time for rallying around a decent distribution codec for the next generation. What's the point of 4K to the home if its just going to get beat to crap by the distribution methodology?

Bandwidth is improving but for commercial success you need a codec/bit rate that is viable for the mass market in the US. Compression is a more complex calculus that faces significant pressures from powerful constituencies more focused on profit than presentation quality metrics. Bottom line - can distributors find a way to offer both choice and quality within the confines of current and near term infrastructure limitations? Do they care?

FWIW I think linear TV distribution might be more resistant to OTT competition if they hadn't tossed their quality advantage aside in pursuit of more channels. In any case, the bit starved images available via cable/DBS are so poor that I still buy physical media.

Many Blu-Ray titles use 19Mb/s> for 1080/24P presentations of well mastered content that looks substantially better than any other readily available source, most of which are provided at 4Mb/s or less. RedRay can't come soon enough...

Cheers - #19
 
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