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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Redlog - still no answer?

Okay, I get what you are saying now. I've never plugged in a DaVinci and seen how it works, so I didn't know how it received information. I'm not trying to make it something that it isn't (not directly at least); I'm trying to get the best results I can, and feel the best way to do that is to help experienced colourists into a situation where they are happy. The post houses I deal with ask for redlog for their DaVinci grading, so that is what I send them. I'm just trying very hard to make sure that the experienced colourists are getting the chance to show what they can do. If they should be receiving REC709 images and their company is asking for log images, my job becomes harder.

By the way, the first "m" doesn't stand for "Mike" does it?
 
I was just reading a book which has a little interview with a colourist and I thought, "I wonder if this is the same guy I am talking to on the red forums." I guess it is.
 
Irri said:
I was just reading a book which has a little interview with a colourist and I thought, "I wonder if this is the same guy I am talking to on the red forums." I guess it is.
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I've known Steve Hullfish for some time now :innocent:
I think Scott Billups quoted me once or twice in his last book as well. Not that I had anything intelligent to say :sarcasm:
 
Expertise

Expertise

Irri said:
I was just reading a book which has a little interview with a colourist and I thought, "I wonder if this is the same guy I am talking to on the red forums." I guess it is.
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Mike is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people to post on RedUser ... he has a wealth of insight covering all aspects of film, video and file-based production and post-production workflows.

He's a no BS guy totally grounded in the realities of post-production and the art of color correction - if you ever get a chance to meet him, buy him a beer and ask him a few questions .... we've all benefited greatly from his generosity of spirit and wicked sense of humor.

Cheers,
Neil
 
It's nice to know you're getting advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.
 
Irri said:
The post houses I deal with ask for redlog for their DaVinci grading, so that is what I send them.
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Do they ask for "redlog" (specifically) or do they ask for log? I'm asking because there are significant differences in that a "normal" 10 bit log file is generally considered to be essentially a Cineon format, with a black point of 95, a white point of 685, and a negative gamma of .6. Redlog is coded logarithmically, but uses a black point of 0, a white point of 1023, and a gamma of 1, which produces a much "lighter" image that may be in question here. The Red LUT that produces essentially a "standard" log file is the PD685 LUT. You might try using that instead and see if it solves your problem.
 
They specifically ask for redlog. It doesn't seem to be the actual colourist that is asking for redlog, but someone in charge. As I mentioned before, when a I spoke to a colourist they were hoping to get something that wasn't logarithmically encoded. It's exactly the same with both places though they don't use the same colour correction software.

I was under the impression that while a PD685 was exportable from Red software, it wasn't the most appropriate way to encode red footage. I am aware of the basic mathematics behind a linear light to gamma corrected or logarithmically encoded format, but I get lost at a certain point:

Is it better to send log files which contain a better a better balance of information, or video files which leave the colourist in the correct colourspace?

Say you had to do a grade on red footage on a DaVinci and I'm sitting in RedCine, how would you like me to send it?
 
Irri said:
Say you had to do a grade on red footage on a DaVinci and I'm sitting in RedCine, how would you like me to send it?
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Tape.. ;)

To be honest he/she should want something with most info in it to allow him/her to do as much as he/she wants.

If he/she used to LOG from film scans he/she may be more comfortable with PD685.

RedLog will give him/her more...

s

(new I should have just put "colourist!)
 
IRRI, when you say they were not happy with the skin tones in Rec709, which color space were the files created with? I have found I get better results using Camera RGB and applying Rec709 Gamma when creating material destined for HD post. Rec709 color space consistently gives me colors that are not accurate to the scene.

Mike, have you found this to be the case as well?
 
Sorry, I forgot about this thread.

The Da Vinci was a Resolve so wasn't tape based (I'm told). I gave the guy redlog and rec709 and he went for redlog saying he would rather pull stuff down from the bright log than lift up from the rec709. I'm not sure if that makes technical sense.

Another guy said he wanted redspace. The trouble with that is that we didn't expose for redspace so it would have blown the highlights. I tried reducing the ASA by a stop and doing a redspace file, but he didn't like that.

The skin tones that we complained about were Camera RGB/REC709. I didn't see the images, I just heard about them.
 
Hey Irri.

If you are "lost in sweden" it should mean that the posthouse and suite you are talking about in mine. Stopp.
I gues I'm a bit late in this conversation. But if you still have questions on what to deliver to me when grading. Just pop in for lunch one day and we'll go through it.
Actualy, on tuesday we are doing a Red seminar. focused for producers. starts at 3, gice us a call and drop by.

/carl
 
I'd say keep this conversation going. It's a good one and will help producers who need to coordinate with post houses on Red projects. Mike has provided some very good information in this thread, and we could probably even go a bit deeper, although I realize that this topic has been covered in other threads as well.
 
I have done some extensive tests and found that if i want to stay in REC709, i still set my color space to REDSpace. I find it delivers far better skin tones hen the REC709. REC709 n the red pushes to green and under fluorescents, yellow. I don not like it all all. If you read the autodesk whitepaper, they recommend the same ting for an HD finish.
 
riggieri said:
I have done some extensive tests and found that if i want to stay in REC709, i still set my color space to REDSpace. I find it delivers far better skin tones hen the REC709. REC709 n the red pushes to green and under fluorescents, yellow. I don not like it all all. If you read the autodesk whitepaper, they recommend the same ting for an HD finish.
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I have come to the same conclusions.
 
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