REDCODE and FCP

[David Battistella]

Does anyone know if the next FCP update will include REDCODE?

Is this going to be a CODEC that we can use in our FCP workflows as a substitute for PROREZ?

Is it less of a RAM HOG than PROREZ is?


David

 

[Zach Nelson]

It should be baked-in v6.0 according to Apple.

 

[David Battistella]

It should be baked-in v6.0 according to Apple.

Not yet.

Quoted from Red's site

"4K REDCODE™ RAW video can be opened directly in an upcoming release of Final Cut Studio 2."

The key word is upcoming. Redcode did not ship with the initial release of FCS2 and FCP6. This is why I am asking when we will have the codec available for use in FCP. One could use a version of this wavelet codec in place of codecs like PROREZ.

David

 

[Jim Arthurs]

This is why I am asking when we will have the codec available for use in FCP. One could use a version of this wavelet codec in place of codecs like PROREZ.
David

I imagine there'll be a point release from Apple before the end of year, adding REDCODE RAW reading support, support for other cameras, and a few bug fixes.

I don't think you'll see REDCODE RGB (which would be necessary for replacing ProRes) anytime soon. Remember, REDCODE RAW is only compressed monochrome Bayer sensor data...

Regards

 

[David Battistella]

Right,

And FCP only has support for up to 2K today, So I guess it's going to be all transcoding (to other codecs) to get into FCP anyway.

David

 

[m.treurniet]

My guess is that Apple will introduce the native REDcode in FCP at the IBC where also the first commercially available camera's will be.

 

[Joe Carney]

I hope Apple is more timely than when promising support for JVCs HdPro 24p.

 

[Simon Blackledge]

time will tell I suppose.. though it would be nice for apple to release a point update on Friday.

s

 

[David Battistella]

Looks like we will have it sooner than we think!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4043

This is pretty much the QT component and FCP should see it if it is in the QT folder. It might take a while for APple to Qualify it, but my guess is that this will happen quickly with the relationships that are in place.

David

 

[Chris Kenny]

Is it less of a RAM HOG than PROREZ is?

ProRes is actually optimized to be an editing codec, with fairly low resource use. REDCODE RAW, as an acquisition codec (presumably optimized for the highest possible quality) will probably be quite a bit more resource intensive. Particularly in light of the real-time de-bayer operations.

 

[Cail Young]

Right,

And FCP only has support for up to 2K today, So I guess it's going to be all transcoding (to other codecs) to get into FCP anyway.

David

Transcoding isn't necessary - FCP will do a 2K or 1K decode of the 4K RAW and you can cut that without re-render. If you want to transcode to 1080p Prores that's always an option.

 

[laguun]

Right,

And FCP only has support for up to 2K today, So I guess it's going to be all transcoding (to other codecs) to get into FCP anyway.

David

i am under the impression that the QT wrapper will downsample 4k to FCP maximum 2K.

However, i think its more important to realise that FCP can only do 8bit in RGB. Filmout workflow or DCI workflow is RGB or XYZ. Fcp can only handle YUV in >8bit, at max 2K.

 

[Chris Kenny]

i am under the impression that the QT wrapper will downsample 4k to FCP maximum 2K.

However, i think its more important to realise that FCP can only do 8bit in RGB. Filmout workflow or DCI workflow is RGB or XYZ. Fcp can only handle YUV in >8bit, at max 2K.

Graeme has mentioned in the past that REDCODE could appear as a YUV codec to FCP, allowing for >8 bit. Hopefully that's still in the cards.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

I seem to remember rumblings some months ago of something people were touting as "Final Cut Pro Extreme" the muts nuts in editing solutions for Mac / FCP users. Where did all of that go?

 

[Cail Young]

I seem to remember rumblings some months ago of something people were touting as "Final Cut Pro Extreme" the muts nuts in editing solutions for Mac / FCP users. Where did all of that go?

All rumormill hype. That said, FCP6 with the universal timeline delivers in software pretty much what the Final Cut Extreme rumours were talking about in hardware, so no great loss really...

 

[Rob Lohman]

Graeme has mentioned in the past that REDCODE could appear as a YUV codec to FCP, allowing for >8 bit. Hopefully that's still in the cards.

Yes, it currently supports 8-bit RGB, 8-bit Y'CbCr 4:2:2 and 10-bit Y'CbCr 4:4:4.

 

[erbp]

When do those of us in line get to try out the codec?

 

[Rob Lohman]

That will be up to Jim. We're currently going through some big software changes under the covers so we'll see.

I'm hoping to post an update on the current and future software landscape, what kind of features are enabled now and where we're heading (feature wise).

 

[pliny]

Graeme has mentioned in the past that REDCODE could appear as a YUV codec to FCP, allowing for >8 bit. Hopefully that's still in the cards.

That's pretty much the workflow that we currently use for films finished in RGB in Final Cut (yes, it can be done). If we have to render in the RGB online sequence--to put titles over picture, for example--the sequence settings must be set to "high-precision YUV," which I believe is the r4fl pixel format (Y'CbCr 32-bit floating point 4:4:4:4).

This means that any rendered video in your timeline has been converted from RGB to Y'CbCr color space and back again. But since RGB is a "smaller" color space than Y'CbCr, you are far less likely to see any major shifts due to clamping when going RGB->Y'CrCb->RGB than if you were round-tripping Y'CrCb->RGB->Y'CrCb.

Another, if imperfect, way to think of this is pouring water from a small glass into a larger one, then back into the small glass again. You haven't lost any water that way. But if you start with a full, large glass and pour its contents into a smaller one, then once you pour it back you will have lost some of the liquid.

 

[Rob Lohman]

Yes, the codec is RGB & Y'CbCr enabled.

Pliny: yes to enabling high-precision YUV, which indeed is r4fl or Y'CbCr in 32-bit float 4:4:4:4

Soon I will be adding 16-bit RGB support for things like Shake and a higher quality down sample for the lower resolution modes.