REDCine-X roundtrip workflow

[Jack Frankleen]

Hi everyone, I'm a cinematographer which color correct and sometimes edit the projects I DP... usually I shoot commercials, music videos and shorts so my workflow is this:
- shoot on RED using CF cards
- create DMGs with Mac
- mount DMGs and open REDCine-X
- from the browser select the clips and import them in a new bin
- create an export preset with these settings (Apple ProRes 422(LT), 1280x720 and 1/8 debayer for everything)... in this way my footage is small in size and takes short time to be transcoded
- edit in Final Cut Pro
- export XML or EDL (sometimes XML doesn't export everything and replace with slugs)
- open REDCine-X and import XML or EDL
- reconnect everything to the original mounted DMG
- color correct and export the final output
- second color correction, effects, titles and whatever
Now, this work great for short projects, but it doesn't work for the feature I'm going to DP next month... REDCine-X needs only one path as destination in order to reconnect the footage to the original RAW data... and I'm going to shoot 27 days with CF cards which means thousand of cards and DMGs!
The big question is: how can I reconnect the final cut to the original RAW footage if I can only choose one destination? Anyone reconnect using another way? Is there a better workflow? So far this is the best one I found even if sometimes XML are not reconnected and I got slugs. Final Cut X doesn't work with EDL or XML so... any ideas or solutions?
Thanks a lot!

 

[Mark Toia]

Use Resolve to grade in from the R3D's and it will export back to FCP and take from FCP time line ... Best 900 dollars every spent.

Very simple & fast and plays ball.

 

[Jack Frankleen]

Use Resolve to grade in from the R3D's and it will export back to FCP and take from FCP time line ... Best 900 dollars every spent.

Very simple & fast and plays ball.

My problem is not where to grade or Final Cut... I grade in RCX and then in Color or other softwares. I just edit in FCP, my problem is how to reconnect from FCP to RCX multiple DMGs

 

[David Ibbitson]

RCX 487 lets you reconnect to multiple directories.

 

[Jack Frankleen]

RCX 487 lets you reconnect to multiple directories.

That's what I was waiting for! Thank you RED! I love you!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Your problem is that you want to conform R3D sources to an offline edit done in FCP.

Your answer is Resolve. Actually for your task, Resolve Lite would work just fine. (Although I'd just get Resolve and use it to finish picture entirely.)

Resolve includes powerful conforming capabilities I am learning about.

Now at first conform will look to you like an overcomplicated "Reconnect Media" dialog ... but its way more powerful if used properly.

Why are you using .dmg files?

I normally recommend copying the contents of a red magazine to a folder. (Ignoring MD5 or other checksum systems for now)

Using .dmg for storage is a "brittle" solution. If you have a bit error in a .dmg file all its contents are potentially lost. If you have a single bit error in a folder of files, then that single file is damaged, everything else is fine.

You also create other problems with this system, for example having to mount potentially thousands of drives in order to conform. You can technically address this with RCX 487 and its multiple directory support ... but even with dozens of directories it will be cumbersome.

Let me put this completely differently: your current workflow should be almost entirely abandoned. Its not scalable.

Right now this is what I suggest:

Copy from your RED CF Cards to a folder system on a RAID array. I usually use a structure with the project name as the "top" folder, and in that folder I have a series of folders labelled "Roll 1" Roll 2" etc. I copy the entire contents of my camera media (Red, Alexa, DSLR, P2, whatever) to these folders. (You can use checksummed copy)

Make a checksummed .dmg file of every card to a different archival filesystem.

In Resolve add the drive with your folder system to the media pool.

Use Resolve to Render to whatever offline format you wish to use in FCP (I recommend ProRes HQ for most projects.) in "source mode." (By the way, you can make fast global adjustments to all your footage in Resolve, such as a colorspace conversion, as well as shot by shot one lights at this point.)

Edit away in FCP.

When you are done, export XML from FCP and import XML into Resolve.

Then using the conform panel you can very quickly connect all your FCP ProRes edits to your original .R3D files, and grade natively.

Now ... its not that easy. I'm missing steps and tons of details. I've only executed this workflow a couple of times, and I am still learning and tweaking it.

I suggest revisiting your old projects with a variation of my workflow here so you can understand it best. There are quite a few details you'll have to sort out about how to name and organize your output files when rendering your "one lights" for FCP, and other details to work out to make a smooth import and conform when you are ready to go the other way.

Definitely worth your time to investigate though.

On another note ... you should definitely look into RedMag SSD. They offload much faster than CF, and they have a lot more capacity, so you won't have to generate thousands of .dmg or folders.

 

[Pablo Villegas S.]

Why not use the QT Proxies? You don't even have to open Redcine X.

And after you edit you can use th XML workflow with Color or Resolve. It's actually very easy that way.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I go on vacation and miss out on these tidbits
Thanks guys for this thread.
Im actually learning while relaxing.
Okay Im lying. I cant relax knowing that I have much more to learn specially from you "Obi Wans" at REDUser

 

[Jack Frankleen]

Why not use the QT Proxies? You don't even have to open Redcine X.

And after you edit you can use th XML workflow with Color or Resolve. It's actually very easy that way.

Because even with a powerful Mac and the codec, Final Cut doesn't handle very well the REDCODE proxies... it's like working with the H.264 files... FCP reads 'em, but it doesn't handle them smooth and clear.

 

[Jack Frankleen]

Your problem is that you want to conform R3D sources to an offline edit done in FCP.

Your answer is Resolve. Actually for your task, Resolve Lite would work just fine. (Although I'd just get Resolve and use it to finish picture entirely.)

Resolve includes powerful conforming capabilities I am learning about.

Now at first conform will look to you like an overcomplicated "Reconnect Media" dialog ... but its way more powerful if used properly.

Why are you using .dmg files?

Because I'm not the only one that handles the files. The files go through different people... directors, assistants, producers... I can't afford that someone rename it, change it, delete some files... I've seen people renaming the R3D files and I don't want this, so I always create a read-only DMG because that is my master. If you shoot with tape or film, you always have a master, but when you shoot in digital... where is your master... the DMG will be, that's why I create it. It's my safe master.

I normally recommend copying the contents of a red magazine to a folder. (Ignoring MD5 or other checksum systems for now)

Using .dmg for storage is a "brittle" solution. If you have a bit error in a .dmg file all its contents are potentially lost. If you have a single bit error in a folder of files, then that single file is damaged, everything else is fine.

You also create other problems with this system, for example having to mount potentially thousands of drives in order to conform. You can technically address this with RCX 487 and its multiple directory support ... but even with dozens of directories it will be cumbersome.

After I (or my DIT, or my 3rd AC) create the DMG I always mount it and double check every file, the structure, the size, I open it on RCX and see if every file works fine and so on, before returning the card to the 2nd AC and making a backup copy. If I copy the entire card without DMGs I have more problems: the files can be renamed, deleted, moved around, the card could be unmounted by mistake before finishing to copy just because you can see it on the desktop (when you create a DMG the card disappear from the desktop). I prefer to have dozens safe directories instead of one that can be modified easily.

Let me put this completely differently: your current workflow should be almost entirely abandoned. Its not scalable.

Right now this is what I suggest:

Copy from your RED CF Cards to a folder system on a RAID array. I usually use a structure with the project name as the "top" folder, and in that folder I have a series of folders labelled "Roll 1" Roll 2" etc. I copy the entire contents of my camera media (Red, Alexa, DSLR, P2, whatever) to these folders. (You can use checksummed copy)

Make a checksummed .dmg file of every card to a different archival filesystem.

In Resolve add the drive with your folder system to the media pool.

Use Resolve to Render to whatever offline format you wish to use in FCP (I recommend ProRes HQ for most projects.) in "source mode." (By the way, you can make fast global adjustments to all your footage in Resolve, such as a colorspace conversion, as well as shot by shot one lights at this point.)

I usually don't use ProRes (HQ)... making tests on different exports of the same clip and blending them with subtraction effect I've seen there is no big difference between HQ, 422, LT and 4444 so I prefer to have a small size file that I can edit quickly even on set with a MacBook Pro... I also export 720 because that's all I need to see in order to edit.

Edit away in FCP.

When you are done, export XML from FCP and import XML into Resolve.

Then using the conform panel you can very quickly connect all your FCP ProRes edits to your original .R3D files, and grade natively.

Now ... its not that easy. I'm missing steps and tons of details. I've only executed this workflow a couple of times, and I am still learning and tweaking it.

My question is: why reconnect using Resolve instead of RCX? They both do the same thing... import XML and reconnect to the .R3D and color correct them natively so why should I spend 900 dollars for a software that does the same thing of RCX or Storm with 600 dollars less?

I suggest revisiting your old projects with a variation of my workflow here so you can understand it best. There are quite a few details you'll have to sort out about how to name and organize your output files when rendering your "one lights" for FCP, and other details to work out to make a smooth import and conform when you are ready to go the other way.

Definitely worth your time to investigate though.

On another note ... you should definitely look into RedMag SSD. They offload much faster than CF, and they have a lot more capacity, so you won't have to generate thousands of .dmg or folders.

The RED is not mine, the owner has hard drive and CF cards... and I hate the RED HDD.

 

[Pablo Villegas S.]

Because even with a powerful Mac and the codec, Final Cut doesn't handle very well the REDCODE proxies... it's like working with the H.264 files... FCP reads 'em, but it doesn't handle them smooth and clear.

I don't edit, but I've never heard any complaints from my editors, and they have always used that workflow. They actually complained that the Epic doesn't do proxies.