Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RedCine Licenses?

offhollywood said:
Do I want a lead compositor, who makes XXX per hour to be personally running that application to make what he or she has decided (not my project manager) is the right settings for his/her work?
Click to expand...

Yes. Compositors work in teams just like an editorial team. We delegate and specialize. When I say "compositors" I mean your post house which has its own full organizational structure and functional hierarchy. So no you wouldn't necessarily have your lead compositor baking out footage. But if an intern is going to do it. I want it to be *our* intern. Think of it like an editor's assistant.

I don't want to have to call up some random production company (who knows what they're already busy doing) to ask for a small change to a green screen file that someone fucked up. "Hey... I need a change on Shot 27-60 could you please not alias the green channel quite so much? Thanks, when can you get that to me? Tommorow? Hmmm ok."

REDCine will not be real time. But I don't expect a 20 second shot to take *that* long to render.

It's my expectation (I don't know because I don't work in RAW right now) that we will be able to subtly tweak the redcine demosaic process. And anytime you can do something like that, the compositors will want that control.

Or the whole thing will be a moot point and we'll just all pack around uncompressed DPX files like we do right now. I don't know. Because honestly I don't have a clue what REDCine is going to be able to do.
 
Horses for courses

Horses for courses

I figure to be servicing different classes of clients.

For many of them I will run the footage through RedCine, doing a one-light style grade to get it in the ballpark of what they want, then give them the output format they requested - over and out. If they want me to grade the selects that's great, more revenue - gotta pay off that eCinema monitor. I may not have the high-end grading package or the hottest colorist in town but I'll be more affordable.

For clients that are higher end I will feed them a one-light for editorial, likely in DVCPRO-HD.
Then a conform session to pull the files for their grading and online using the RPL with handles. If they need a license then they'll just buy one unless the cost is insane (which IMHO is highly unlikely). For clients at this level I don't think the cost of the software or the expertise to use it will cause major issues.

Horses for courses. The inherent quality advantage of the imaging system combined with getting the footage in a format they can easily handle should satisfy most of the general market post-pipeline. The high end guys will pay for the access to the RAW data and know how to handle it.
 
Aren't RedCine and Redcode different things? Everyone's talking about RedCine as though it's the codec.

I agree, the codec should be widely available so anyone can use it, and people will be more likely to. But the actual RedCine processing software, the debayering algorithm and all the other stuff that you have to do to get footage from camera to workable data, should, IMO, be a license you pay for (or included with purchase of a camera).

I can understand the idea of keeping it more open, though, and it's RED's call to make.
 
from my POV as DP ( not as full service production service ) - i'm a bit lazy & most of the time too busy ...

i'm a DP not a post or online house ...
i don't have time to be rendering off clips .. i'll do a LUT and have somebody off load the clip to a external drive & bid all a GOODnight - see you tomorrow .. on a feature that should not be too difficult - the ass't editors can use the LUT when they use Redcine ... when picture is locked & they have pulled the 4k raw clips i'll supervise the CC at a 3rd party ...

on a commercial ... transfer RAW to external HD and hand it to Ad agency .. that leaves whomever they hired for post having Redcine ... usually about 40% of the time i come back for final CC ... if there's a DIT then perhaps they'll render off a low res proxy ?? = will reconsider after NAB ?

on a DOC ! i'll transfer the raw clips to external drive and maybe ? render off a SD copy in REDcine or put a LUT on drive ?? or ??? = again will reconsider after NAB .... but they'll have to go to 3rd party or somebody that has REDcine if they decide to go back to the 4k raw clips ...

so i'll need to tell persons where to go for REDcine etc or have a list of production/post house that have it ...
 
DorkmanScott said:
Aren't RedCine and Redcode different things? Everyone's talking about RedCine as though it's the codec.

I agree, the codec should be widely available so anyone can use it, and people will be more likely to. But the actual RedCine processing software, the debayering algorithm and all the other stuff that you have to do to get footage from camera to workable data, should, IMO, be a license you pay for (or included with purchase of a camera).

I can understand the idea of keeping it more open, though, and it's RED's call to make.
Click to expand...

The debayering algorithm would probably be integral to the codec.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I figure to be servicing different classes of clients.

For many of them I will run the footage through RedCine, doing a one-light style grade to get it in the ballpark of what they want, then give them the output format they requested - over and out. If they want me to grade the selects that's great, more revenue - gotta pay off that eCinema monitor. I may not have the high-end grading package or the hottest colorist in town but I'll be more affordable.

For clients that are higher end I will feed them a one-light for editorial, likely in DVCPRO-HD.
Then a conform session to pull the files for their grading and online using the RPL with handles. If they need a license then they'll just buy one unless the cost is insane (which IMHO is highly unlikely). For clients at this level I don't think the cost of the software or the expertise to use it will cause major issues.

Horses for courses. The inherent quality advantage of the imaging system combined with getting the footage in a format they can easily handle should satisfy most of the general market post-pipeline. The high end guys will pay for the access to the RAW data and know how to handle it.
Click to expand...

I largely agree with this. High end folks will either do it themselves or ask you to do it for them for a fee.

The codec is going to be free - everybody has to be able to read it in RAW & RGB formats.

For the Red program overall to be successful, it needs to get propagated out there - so every little thing that slows its spread (like cost or high cost) is an impediment to the greater goal of selling more Reds.

Perhaps consider this - regardless of the camera price difference, would most of you rather work with DVCPRO HD footage (native codec available in NLEs, can ingest over FireWire) or HDCAM footage (no native codec, gotta work uncompressed over HD-SDI)?

The easier format to work with tends to win.

I suspect Jim & Ted & Stuart & Graeme all recognize this, and thus I predict Redcine will either be:

-free from the get-go
-free for a while until it is widely adopted, then a better version comes out they chose to charge for - nah, too much backlash if they did that
-or relatively low cost - Red One purchasers get a very flexible license, and additional seats are less expensive than a brand new seat, and a brand new seat (for non-owners) is in the $100-$200 range at most.

One of the smarter things that I see Red doing is approaching it all from a holistic standpoint as a SYSTEM, not just a camera. The codecs, the workflow, the software (Redcine), pushing for NLE support from the Big A's ASAP, all are just as important as the price point, the resolution, the dynamic range, etc. to the overall success of the program.

My $0.02.

-mike
 
Review of Ted talk & filming of 'Crossing the Line' in OZ

Review of Ted talk & filming of 'Crossing the Line' in OZ

I've posted a small review (Part 1) of Ted's talk in the Red User Group forum.

Read it here

Cheers,
Dave,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top