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Red XLR Module (Wish List!)

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Curren Sheldon

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As someone who often shoots alone or with just a b-cam, it's important to have XLR hookups to get quality audio while also operating camera. I'm wondering why RED (and third-party developers) haven't made a simple, lightweight module for folks coming from this world - namely, one-person shooters who are doing documentary, small commercial work, and one-man-band type footage capture. Especially with the Raven and Scarlet-W, which are more affordable and would appeal to lower budget filmmakers, this seems like it would make a lot of sense.

The only option really is the RedVolt Expander, but it's large and then you're using redvolts and still have to hook up a V-Mount plate on the back to get real, long-lasting power.

SO - my big wish list for a Red Module would be: A DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander sized module with two-XLRs, V-Mount, Headphone, 3.5mm jack, and an HDMI/SDI output, and DC-IN.

Would love to get great XLR-audio outputs without putting the equivalent weight/size of another whole camera on the back. The OMOD XLR module seems close, but it's still pretty thick and still needs another module in order to hook up a V-Mount battery - so you're looking at some serious size/weight additions. And Tilta's solution (which I guess is MIA) is an absolute tank.
 
I hear you! What kind of mics are you using? There are other solutions out there, I have an audio background and may be able to help a bit. Right now what I do is use a sennheiser shotgun that has an internal battery or rode stereo mic. If you are booming a mic, then you have the time for a separate recorder.

I work in wedding films and batteries and lectrosonic wireless are my best friend, I can mic some one up, go 3.5 into the unit (doing this tomorrow for the first time into a epic-w) or I can hook right up to a dj or venue board and basically stream to my camera.

XLR is always going to take up room and that is the issue, if you can get a balanced trs input on the front end that will solve noise issues. But good pre's or clean expensive mics and good converters are the key to any good audio chain. I am very interested to see what my dpa>lectrosonic>v lock IO will sound like tomorrow

Steve
 
Any small module is simply going to be just an xlr interface that rely on the existing pre amps in the camera which are not very good. Best solution is the OMOD XLR with high quality preamps.
 
I agree with Kerrin - we do need a simple XLR module ala the V-Lock I/O Expander. Bob - the pre-amps in the cameras are good enough. Especially if you can feed them with high-quality balanced input. And if this part of the V-lock - you can easily provide the phantom power as well...

:sifone: Peter
 
If you want more tha two channels of audio then a compact field recorder has advantages. And you can match budget to the number of tracks and quality of AD conversion and preamps that you need. The Sound Devices units and the Zoom H6 or F8 are good at different cost levels, but there are other brands equally good.

For a compact expander module, the OMOD looks to be the best currently as mentioned in the previous post. It has a useful set of I/O connections features including 'pro audio' capabilities. I'm looking forward to its release and learning about user experience with it.

Generally, the mic inputs on most cameras are best used as sync tracks for post audio editing. All it takes is excess background audio noise, nasty clipping, or RF interference to ruin a shoot that will make you run to find the best recording options you can use, funds permitting.
 
I'm moving from a Scarlet-X to the Scarlet-W (arriving this week). It looks like I can't run phantom power to a shotgun mic from the SW body, or the base expander I ordered. Is this true? I'm now looking at a battery powered mic as an alternate to my phantom powered Rode now.
 
Hey Steve - I'm using a Senheisser Lav (battery powered) and a Rode NTG4+ (because it has a built in battery it doesn't need phantom power). So, hypothetically, the A-Box would be alright with those two. I almost always have a subject with a lav and a boom on the camera.

I guess more than anything else, I'm wondering if the quality from the A-Box is pretty solid or if audio suffers due to the single 3.5mm jack > double XLR setup and existing camera preamps.

I totally get that recording separate audio into something like a Sound Devices or Zoom setup is always better, but I usually shoot alone (with Sony FS5/7s, which have a pretty good double-XLR audio setup) - I also love avoiding syncing sound in pot if I can help it.

Of course, with my plans to do bigger productions (narrative and commercial shorts with multiple characters), I'll get a sound recordist and field recorder. But for my shoot-alone stuff, two XLRs is usually sufficient.
 
Hey Kip - That is true. For Red Modules, the only phantom powered modules are the RedVolt Expander (http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc2-redvolt-expander) and the not yet released OMOD XLR (https://shop.offhollywoodny.com/collections/omod/products/omod-xlr).

Seems like the most common workaround to get two XLRs is to buy the Red DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander and then hook up Wooden Camera's A-Box XLR adapter: http://woodencamera.com/a-box-weapon-scarlet-w-raven.html - but this doesn't supply phantom power. So, you'd have to get a battery powered boom. The Rode NTG4+ (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...rodntg4plus_ntg4_shotgun_microphone_with.html) is pretty good and works in most situations. I don't feel like it's a very sensitive and as clean of a microphone as my Sennheiser MK416 (which is just awesome), but it works in most situations.

Hope this helps!
 
Thanks Kevin. I'm running a A-Box now and just ordered the new guts to swap-out to a single 3.5. I need something now and OMOD is not shipping yet. Looks like I need to buy another mic :(.
 
I totally agree on needing a lighter weight option for full size xlr with Phantom.

But for run and gun, if you only needed a single audio input, what 1/8" to XLR adapter cable would work? With my Scarlet Dragon, we typically record audio separately but on run and gun shoots we'd use either the A box for two mics or had a small adapter cable if we only had one to save on camera weight and bulk. I assume that same cable wouldn't work since the audio port is wired differently...

Any suggestions?
 
Tyler Bourns said:
I totally agree on needing a lighter weight option for full size xlr with Phantom.

But for run and gun, if you only needed a single audio input, what 1/8" to XLR adapter cable would work? With my Scarlet Dragon, we typically record audio separately but on run and gun shoots we'd use either the A box for two mics or had a small adapter cable if we only had one to save on camera weight and bulk. I assume that same cable wouldn't work since the audio port is wired differently...


Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Apparently, TILTA are working on some kind of XLR module, but their delivery dates are a total mystery. At IBC, I think the Hellium Stormtrooper was actually "caged" with this module.
http://tilta.com/shop/tilta-for-red-weaponscarlet-wraven-rig-esr-t01-b/
 

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RED makes this:.

http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc2-redvolt-expander

Def higher budget, but def adds a lot of expandability.

The realities of a tiny "brain" is there's almost no toom for "real" audio...which reallly needs to be added via a module.

Using a Wooden A Box should work fine for a mix from Sound.

As long as you jam timecode or use a lockit box type sync sound jammer...its really easy to marry sound and video later.

Hope this helps.
 
Kerrin Sheldon said:
As someone who often shoots alone or with just a b-cam, it's important to have XLR hookups to get quality audio while also operating camera. I'm wondering why RED (and third-party developers) haven't made a simple, lightweight module for folks coming from this world - namely, one-person shooters who are doing documentary, small commercial work, and one-man-band type footage capture. Especially with the Raven and Scarlet-W, which are more affordable and would appeal to lower budget filmmakers, this seems like it would make a lot of sense.

The only option really is the RedVolt Expander, but it's large and then you're using redvolts and still have to hook up a V-Mount plate on the back to get real, long-lasting power.

SO - my big wish list for a Red Module would be: A DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander sized module with two-XLRs, V-Mount, Headphone, 3.5mm jack, and an HDMI/SDI output, and DC-IN.

Would love to get great XLR-audio outputs without putting the equivalent weight/size of another whole camera on the back. The OMOD XLR module seems close, but it's still pretty thick and still needs another module in order to hook up a V-Mount battery - so you're looking at some serious size/weight additions. And Tilta's solution (which I guess is MIA) is an absolute tank.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, the DSMC2 REDVOLT EXPANDER doubles the camera size, when the V-Lock I/O expander could just be slightly bigger to fit two full-size XLR inputs with phantom power.

And if possible, without adding too much size and bulk, a Denecke or Ambiant Lockit chip and wireless audio receiver integrated without wires. One of Red's advantage is it's form factor, it would be nice to keep it even with sound : )

Please Red ; )
 
Signed. Losing Phantom Power is a huge throw-back when switching from DSMC to DSMC2. I really love to have the possibility to sync via sound...so I need a mic that's always on. For sure you can use a powered mic... but then it's just another battery you have to keep in mind...
 
I'm curious to see what the best way to go is with this. I'm thinking that the OMOD XLR unit is the best for us, but we should be getting our S-W any day now, and I have a 1/8" to XLR adapter cable beside me. Going to see if that works alright with our Rode NTG4+.
 
Nicolas Geissler said:
Signed. Losing Phantom Power is a huge throw-back when switching from DSMC to DSMC2. I really love to have the possibility to sync via sound...so I need a mic that's always on. For sure you can use a powered mic... but then it's just another battery you have to keep in mind...
Click to expand...

The DSMC2 bodies have built-in scratch mics on the front, so you'll have a sync source as long as you remember to adjust the gain to right ballpark. Those mics are pretty sensitive, from my listening so far it seems like they'll do fine for syncing by waveform.

In the longer term though, I think the OMOD is the best option even though it's not available yet. It looks to be well designed, and the OMOD stuff that I saw at NAB (Mark didn't have the XLR module on the floor unfortunately) was nice and solid. I'll have to try pinging Mark again to see if I can get a review module and compare its sound quality to that of my Sound Devices recorder. I'm hoping that the OMOD XLRs will be able to match the Sound Devices sound quality.
 
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