RED WEAPON - the name

[D Fuller]

Meh... The problem with Titan is that everything else in this world bearing the Titan name is some big, lumbering object like a pickup truck or large SUV or something else beefy and strong.

Or a high-end GPU, or... That's really the problem, there's a zillion other things named Titan. (Kinda like titanium.)

I think before everyone gets too hasty with dispatching the "Weapon" name, perhaps we should see what it is that we're naming.... Just sayin' I'm betting "Weapon" is very fitting.

I find that hard to imagine. "Weapon" is just so generic. It's the name of a category, not a thing. It does not describe something unique, the way a brand name should. A bunch of people have compared the name to "shotgun" for a mic. But that just makes the point -- "shotgun" is a category of mic, not a particular mic. It only differentiates it from other broad categories of mics.

Look, I know nobody at Red is going to re-think anything because of anything i say. I'm just not that influential a guy. But a very influential creative director once said to me: "The strategy is not the creative. Good creative transcends the strategy; it delivers the strategy, but without showing it."

This name has "We want people to think this is the baddest-ass camera" written all over it. That's the strategy showing through. If the name were right, nobody would talk about it. Nobody would think about it. It would just be the name of the baddest-ass camera, and they would talk about the camera.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

RED TSUNAMI - because there was a tidal wave of dislike for the previous name.

Im all for a poll but the wave of negative reactions from members old and new is so strong im not sure a poll could send a stronger message than this thread.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

I'm sure Jim can appreciate our rebellion, being a rebel himself. We are letting our voices and opinions be known and many of us are very passionate about it.
many people are upset about possible practical issues with the security industry that this name can evoke. Many are upset about the negative connotation. Some about both. I'm in that camp.
You can fight normalicy, status quo and dullness with positive words and names.
What we are doing is pushing RED to work even harder, get a better result, just like we are pushed and challenged on set. It can be a Director demanding that impossible shot that, when you are pushed to create, you go that extra mile and deliver. A pain in the but at the time, but a sense of accomplishment comes later.
Thats what I'm asking RED, Jim and Jarred. Do that extra brainstorm, have that extra meeting, think about the impact you'll have and find a name that is Epic in scope, huge and inspiring. Make us aspire to work with this new camera and create great things and make the world a little better, one cat clip at a time

 

[D Fuller]

... We may suck at naming things but at least we are honest about our specs....

You don't suck at naming things at all. This name is just not up to your usual standard.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I'm sure Jim can appreciate our rebellion, being a rebel himself. We are letting our voices and opinions be known and many of us are very passionate about it.
many people are upset about possible practical issues with the security industry that this name can evoke. Many are upset about the negative connotation. Some about both. I'm in that camp.
You can fight normalicy, status quo and dullness with positive words and names.
What we are doing is pushing RED to work even harder, get a better result, just like we are pushed and challenged on set. It can be a Director demanding that impossible shot that, when you are pushed to create, you go that extra mile and deliver. A pain in the but at the time, but a sense of accomplishment comes later.
Thats what I'm asking RED, Jim and Jarrod. Do that extra brainstorm, have that extra meeting, think about the impact you'll have and find a name that is Epic in scope, huge and inspiring. Make us aspire to work with this new camera and create great things and make the world a little better, one cat clip at a time

Nicely put, Daniel. I especially agree with the point that working against conventional thinking can be done without a "war" connotation. which has too much baggage in our world.

 

[Elsie N]

Nicely put, Daniel. I especially agree with the point that working against conventional thinking can be done without a "war" connotation. which has too much baggage in our world.

terry, you (I'm assuming) and I don't play video games. If we did Weapon would fit our world view perfectly. I suspect the big majority of RED's customer base also play video games, so I completely understand RED aiming at that portion of the customer base.

And whatever makes RED money helps all of us when RED uses the money from that customer base to create new products... like Weapon.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I see 3 problems with the name:

1) It isn't clearly sarcastic. If you said RED Howitzer then it doesn't take a half ounce of intelligence to understand that a 50 ton truck is not in your case. You say "Weapon" and there is no wink or nod to let people know that you literally aren't transporting weapons. The TSA even has a page when you check in "Are you carrying any weapons?" It's a bit like labeling flour "Cocaine" it's plausibly actually cocaine so you can't say it's clearly a joke. So now I'm clearly not going to stencil "Weapons" onto the camera pelican. I'll never see that camera again the first time I go through customs. And if I have to hide the name of my product and avoid speaking the name aloud then it's effectively unnamed.

2) It's rediculously broad and nonspecific. When you say again RED Howitzer that immediately evokes a big powerful loud attention grabbing over the top thing. When you say "Weapon" I honestly first think of like numbchucks and other stupid "weapons". I also think of "Weapons" like scissors, box cutters and nail clippers. It's so broad I feel like I should call it the RED Noun.

3) I'm not offended but I can see how someone whose life had grown up with too many "weapons" that have been tools of fear, oppression and terror would legitimately not see any positive associations. Someone from Hiroshima legitimately has negative associations with Nuke while I only have mostly Fallout 2 Pip Boy associations. To me Nukes are an abstract. To someone whose family was incinerated the name isn't free of association. People have been killed because their cameras were mistaken for weapons. That's a fact I'm keenly aware of and take into consideration when filming even when I'm not in a war zone. Police have itchy fingers even when it's not mistaken for an RPG launcher.

It feels like the only reason "Weapon" was picked was because it does make for a clever upgrade announcement "Weaponizing Dragon". But once the upgrades are over it doesn't work nearly as well as a Noun as it does as a verb.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

terry, you (I'm assuming) and I don't play video games. If we did Weapon would fit our world view perfectly. I suspect the big majority of RED's customer base also play video games, so I completely understand RED aiming at that portion of the customer base.

And whatever makes RED money helps all of us when RED uses the money from that customer base to create new products... like Weapon.

Elsie, I play games (too much). I am a registered firearm owner. I shoot. I (sometimes) paintball and airsoft. I own a H1 and a military Humvee. I SHOULD like that name? Problem is... the name blows, causes problems, is embarrassing, dumb and juvenile.

The problem isn't the people.

 

[Elsie N]

I see 3 problems with the name:

1) It isn't clearly sarcastic. If you said RED Howitzer then it doesn't take a half ounce of intelligence to understand that a 50 ton truck is not in your case. You say "Weapon" and there is no wink or nod to let people know that you literally aren't transporting weapons. The TSA even has a page when you check in "Are you carrying any weapons?" It's a bit like labeling flour "Cocaine" it's plausibly actually cocaine so you can't say it's clearly a joke. So now I'm clearly not going to stencil "Weapons" onto the camera pelican. I'll never see that camera again the first time I go through customs. And if I have to hide the name of my product and avoid speaking the name aloud then it's effectively unnamed.

2) It's rediculously broad and nonspecific. When you say again RED Howitzer that immediately evokes a big powerful loud attention grabbing over the top thing. When you say "Weapon" I honestly first think of like numbchucks and other stupid "weapons". I also think of "Weapons" like scissors, box cutters and nail clippers. It's so broad I feel like I should call it the RED Noun.

3) I'm not offended but I can see how someone whose life had grown up with too many "weapons" that have been tools of fear, oppression and terror would legitimately not see any positive associations. Someone from Hiroshima legitimately has negative associations with Nuke while I only have mostly Fallout 2 Pip Boy associations. To me Nukes are an abstract. To someone whose family was incinerated the name isn't free of association. People have been killed because their cameras were mistaken for weapons. That's a fact I'm keenly aware of and take into consideration when filming even when I'm not in a war zone. Police have itchy fingers even when it's not mistaken for an RPG launcher.

It feels like the only reason "Weapon" was picked was because it does make for a clever upgrade announcement "Weaponizing Dragon". But once the upgrades are over it doesn't work nearly as well as a Noun as it does as a verb.

Well thought-out post.

 

[Elsie N]

Elsie, I play games (too much). I am a registered firearm owner. I shoot. I (sometimes) paintball and airsoft. I own a H1 and a military Humvee. I SHOULD like that name? Problem is... the name blows, causes problems, is embarrassing, dumb and juvenile.

The problem isn't the people.

duly noted.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

I see 3 problems with the name:

1) It isn't clearly sarcastic. If you said RED Howitzer then it doesn't take a half ounce of intelligence to understand that a 50 ton truck is not in your case. You say "Weapon" and there is no wink or nod to let people know that you literally aren't transporting weapons. The TSA even has a page when you check in "Are you carrying any weapons?" It's a bit like labeling flour "Cocaine" it's plausibly actually cocaine so you can't say it's clearly a joke. So now I'm clearly not going to stencil "Weapons" onto the camera pelican. I'll never see that camera again the first time I go through customs. And if I have to hide the name of my product and avoid speaking the name aloud then it's effectively unnamed.

2) It's rediculously broad and nonspecific. When you say again RED Howitzer that immediately evokes a big powerful loud attention grabbing over the top thing. When you say "Weapon" I honestly first think of like numbchucks and other stupid "weapons". I also think of "Weapons" like scissors, box cutters and nail clippers. It's so broad I feel like I should call it the RED Noun.

3) I'm not offended but I can see how someone whose life had grown up with too many "weapons" that have been tools of fear, oppression and terror would legitimately not see any positive associations. Someone from Hiroshima legitimately has negative associations with Nuke while I only have mostly Fallout 2 Pip Boy associations. To me Nukes are an abstract. To someone whose family was incinerated the name isn't free of association. People have been killed because their cameras were mistaken for weapons. That's a fact I'm keenly aware of and take into consideration when filming even when I'm not in a war zone. Police have itchy fingers even when it's not mistaken for an RPG launcher.

It feels like the only reason "Weapon" was picked was because it does make for a clever upgrade announcement "Weaponizing Dragon". But once the upgrades are over it doesn't work nearly as well as a Noun as it does as a verb.

excelent points.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

FWIW, no, I don't play video games. But, I don't really see that it matters whether other REDusers do... or don't. The poll results so far are interesting in that they already show the overwhelming number of people prefer a different name, and very few want to keep the name. The "pro-weapon" votes are very much in the minority.

I really don't think the RED branding, in and of itself, has been a positive for them. Their product innovation and industry disruption has been the key to their success. A lot of us just ignore the tattoos, the military jargon, and the war mentality. To me, it seems juvenile, but I am fully aware that is just one perspective.

 

[Elsie N]

FWIW, no, I don't play video games. But, I don't really see that it matters whether other REDusers do... or don't. The poll results so far are interesting in that they already show the overwhelming number of people prefer a different name, and very few want to keep the name. The "pro-weapon" votes are very much in the minority.

I really don't think the RED branding, in and of itself, has been a positive for them. Their product innovation and industry disruption has been the key to their success. A lot of us just ignore the tattoos, the military jargon, and the war mentality. To me, it seems juvenile, but I am fully aware that is just one perspective.

With inflammatory words such as "silly" and "juvenile" and "childish" being thrown around with impunity, who can blame the young gamer for not posting while saying "it's just a word I use hundreds of times a day... what's the big deal?"

 

[Terry VerHaar]

With inflammatory words such as "silly" and "juvenile" and "childish" being thrown around with impunity, who can blame the young gamer for not posting while saying "it's just a word I use hunderds of times a day... what't the big deal?"

I'll admit to being surprised by the passion with which you are defending this name...

in any case, I don't see "juvenile" as inflammatory, nor would I say that for "childish" or silly." They are just opinions; judgements, if you like. I said mine was just a single perspective. The name isn't going to prevent me from choosing, or cause me to choose, the tool that works for me. Jumping on your bandwagon of "the good for all..." I would say that I just want RED to be even more successful than it is - by raising the quality of it's marketing to the high level of it's product innovation.

 

[Elsie N]

I'll admit to being surprised by the passion with which you are defending this name...

in any case, I don't see "juvenile" as inflammatory, nor would I say that for "childish" or silly." They are just opinions; judgements, if you like. I said mine was just a single perspective. The name isn't going to prevent me from choosing, or cause me to choose, the tool that works for me. Jumping on your bandwagon of "the good for all..." I would say that I just want RED to be even more successful than it is - by raising the quality of it's marketing to the high level of it's product innovation.

You silly goose! Of COURSE they are inflammatory!

(Go check your blood pressure after reading the above and tell me it hasn't risen. '-)

As for defending the name, I'm not... I'm defending balance.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

People get excited about different things, I guess. :001_huh:

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

I'll admit to being surprised by the passion with which you are defending this name...

I was thinking the same. But his passion helps keep the conversation going...and going...and going....although I must say the quality of peoples replies to Elsie solidify my thoughts... and I hope sway others.

 

[Elsie N]

I was thinking the same. But his passion helps keep the conversation going...and going...and going....although I must say the quality of peoples replies to Elsie solidify my thoughts... and I hope sway others.

My goal is a little different... I hope that my replies cause people to think instead of accepting the bombastic rhetoric contained in many of the posts against the name.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Elsie - you are starting to sound a little like "my reasons are better than your reasons." I know, or at least I hope, you think that - but we all feel that way about our own perspectives too.

 

[David Battistella]

I think we can put this one to bed for good.

Battistella