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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED vs SONY EX1

proaudio4 said:
I would NEVER use auto anything on an EX1. Period.
The full manual mode works fine.
Click to expand...

You know, this is an interesting comment. While I prefer to shoot manual nearly all the time, my shoot this weekend required some automatic use of my camera (DVX while I wait on the EX1) and I was darn glad to have it.

Subject was an offroad event, and it was literally, all I could do to frame and compose the shots, and perhaps make iris adjustments. If I had to focus as well it would have been futile. Distances varied over 300ft in some shots.

While I certainly understand and appreciate those who have the luxury of filming with blocking, focus pullers, DPs, controlled light, etc. I had none of those things. It was the first time in years I had shot untethered. And onto tape at that.

So let's not bash those who use some automatic features because quite honestly, there are times when that is the ONLY way you're going to get the shots.
 
There's some shooting situations where you don't have a crew.. thank god for the EX1 or a similar camera. You can just run around, take shots, and have fun without dragging a whole circus around. Climb up in a tree, get under the bleachers, put the camera on the ceiling, put it in a bucket and lower it out the window, fun times!
Its good to 'run around' sometimes, 'cause it can give you new ideas for interesting angles and movements.
 
I paraphrase a couple of the former postings.

The very first thing I did with my Red Camera was to configure it to shoot hand held. Most of the documentaries I shoot require putting the camera "on the ceiling or in a bucket." I built my Red around my old Aaton LTR. I use the Red Zoom Lenses, 2 sets of carbon rods, a battery mount that Hunter Richard made, the ET eyepiece mount, and the Vocas 315 mattebox (I had a ring made to adapt the 114mm to 105mm and it doesn't vignette at 18mm!). The Red Camera can be configured as a run and gun camera.

The last three Red Camera I shot without an assistant. None of the lighting was "controlled" and there was no blocking of actors. I find that having an assistant pull focus negated the smoothness of shooting handheld. The balance of the camera, and how it fits to your shoulder became more important than weight. The EX-1 was lighter yet required camera support because of the viewing system's locations. The EX-1 seemed front heavy to me. My monopod was critical. One end of the monopod would attach to the camera and the other end would be stuck in my pants pocket. With Red it is perfectly balanced on my shoulder. Heavier yes, but no more than the many film or ENG cameras.

Question? How do you get an official name for your Red Camera? I would love to name my camera after my seven year old, or some other cool name. I know this is the Red vs. EX-1 board but thought I would ask. Thanks, Francis
 
NoahK said:
Dude- wow show some respect. Francis is a way more experienced and professional DP than you are. Well actually I can't be 100% certain because unlike him you haven't bothered to give your real name. But I'm kinda guessing you're not a fellow ASC member... :red_bandana:

-Noah
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I am new here but I was reading this article and I think it was pretty immature what Francis wrote. And how are you gonna criticize someone acting as Francis is a God? Your telling someone you don't know "Francis is way more experienced and Professional DP than you are." Check out some of those horrible movies that he worked with on his website. I tried to watch his reel but it took too long to load up. I am sure Francis is a great DP but some of his comments were stupid. I have worked with the 4k, and was an assistant camera operator on the EX1. I am gonna be honest the EX1 is very impressive for its price. As for the pop up menus Francis was talking about is BS I never anything like that. Maybe he was still in auto mode, or the camera was defected. I mostly work with the F23 and sometimes I get to work with the genesis. But I just wanted to comment on this because you shouldn't call a $6500 camera a toy, and saying it has good use for soccer moms, or highschool students.
 
Stupid Camera said:
Your telling someone you don't know "Francis is way more experienced and Professional DP than you are." Check out some of those horrible movies that he worked with on his website.
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Thats a pretty nasty comment to say about anyone.

Have you heard of any of these films?

Scary Movie
How High
She's All That
Night at the Roxbury
Bean: The Movie
Coneheads
Wayne's World 2

I think Francis was the DP on all of them.
 
P.s. Its apples and oranges when comparing a prosumer (Yes, thats actually the genre of this camera) fixedlens handheld camera to a 35mm digital cinema camera like Red. Both have their time to shine in the right circumstances. You could never say one is "better" than the other, as they are for 2 completely different applications.
 
My own personal POV:

Sd cameras are great for shooting babies and events.
HDV, P2, etc... cameras are great for doing very high quality SD work.
RED is great for doing high quality HD work.

YMMV

Btw... Francis, loved New Jack City. Very creative stuff there. It was one of those few films were you actually notice a DOP was hard at work :)
 
we compared today ex1 (with + without letus and nikons) and red.

DR: VERY similar indeed, noise of the ex1 is similar to red.
i thought red will be more ahead here.

resolution: in 1080p VERY similar, but red is more stable and more filmic at the edges. if you turn off detail at ex1, you have a better image, but it is softer than the red. sure, red in general offers more details.

greenscreen: ex1 performed very good too. red fantastic (every hair was still there in the key, awesome!)

colors: red has more beauty indeed.

with letus: ex1 goes softer, but nice too.

i think it´s a very good B-Cam, and we were suprised how close the ex is to the red.

the whole image of red is in general nicer, but ex1 is a great camera.
with letus and nikons you have beautiful filmic images, but not the brilliance of the red.

so, the biggest surprise was the dynamic range. there are (even it is not raw) a lot of informations in the image of the ex1 you don´t expect.
 
Red South West

What bribe do you need to post the original R3D and native file format EX1 files? I can give you a FTP site - and other people can download happily until the bandwidth runs out.

Or should I just send you a drive along with chocolate / wine / beer?

I'm about to do a similar test. Am mostly interested in the stuff where you compared all 3 (eg ex1 vs ex1 + letus vs red).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
the friend with the ex1 just left, but i will tell him to save the images.
then i can do some stuff for you in a couple of days, maybe one frame is enough for you? it´s really "power on and shoot" footage.

but i will have my own ex1 on tuesday here when it comes back from rental and will shoot some more stuff in the same lightning we do for the red (main camera)
 
Red South West said:
the friend with the ex1 just left, but i will tell him to save the images.
then i can do some stuff for you in a couple of days, maybe one frame is enough for you? it´s really "power on and shoot" footage.

but i will have my own ex1 on tuesday here when it comes back from rental and will shoot some more stuff in the same lightning we do for the red (main camera)
Click to expand...

Haha, sounds good, now just figure out what you want.

BTW, MacGregor, that goes for you too. I think the whole forum owes you a beer ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
some stuff that is still in the mac -

very similar in this example. in the uncompressed mode, the red image is very much better, no doubt, but i can say that the sony does perform very well with the DR, but is has more the videolook.

it was very dark (outdoor evening and rainy weather), so both do a great job here.
both cams were open and shutter at 1/50.
red: redspace without any corrections ...
 
Red South West said:
some stuff that is still in the mac -

very similar in this example. in the uncompressed mode, the red image is very much better, no doubt, but i can say that the sony dose perform very well with the DR, but is has more the videolook.

it was very dark (outdoor evening and rainy weather), so both do a great job here.
both cams were open and shutter at 1/50.
red: redspace without any corrections ...
Click to expand...

The EX1 and 3 are HDV cameras right? Is there no problem editing GOP compressed footage? I was under the impression HDV was very low quality compression, but the images here look very good.
 
Perhaps not the best example in the world but I did use the EX1 on a Pop Promo: CRAINE "End of the Line"

It is on my new website: www.levinspictures.com

You will need to navigate through to it from the main page as it is all flash so I can't give a direct link.

But the website navigation is a bit fun to work out :-)

I fouind it to be very good for a 1/2 inch chip in low light. most of this video was illuminated by the Sanyo's PLC-XF47 in a rear projection comfigeration.

I used floor underlay as the backdrop also some pups (300W) were used to augment the lighting.

When I get my RED I shall do some tests but I have a feeling they will be very different. I have worked with the RED and it is a different beast all together from the EX1.

EX1:

Good:

Small, lightweight

Great built in LCD

Love the SXS work flow on my macbook

For a small camera it has nice lens controls

Love the histogram, which I know the red has as well but a big improvement on other smaller HD cameras

Cons:

Terrible viewfinder (I don't think I have ever used it)

DOF is not like the red at all.

Awkward for hand held

Lens not so good on the long end

Basically I really like the EX1 and it has never crashed on me once :-)

I bought it for a massive 6 month web project and to be honest the RED would not have the right camera. but then I would not shoot a feature on the RED. so it al depends

I think I will like my RED too....
 
ex1 is not hdv.

the compression IS there, but it is something you can live with in this class.

adam, you are right in all points. to add: ex1 is very sensitive and a good lowlight camera.

the viewfinder is better than my EVF from red - because i have not one :)
but next week it will be shipped. and then we have another result here...

the DOF is slightly better than "normal" HDV cams as it has a bigger chip.
but no comparison to red.
then you need an adapter, but that causes new issues you don´t have with the PL-king red :)
 
Steve Sanacore said:
The EX1 and 3 are HDV cameras right? Is there no problem editing GOP compressed footage? I was under the impression HDV was very low quality compression, but the images here look very good.
Click to expand...

Not HDV

They are XDCAM and I have found the footage very good if you do not try and push it too far.

Oh another thing I really hate about the EX1 is the user interface when it comes to WB. they really dropped the ball on that one. I do not really want to go into the picture profiles to fine tune the color temperature.

But I do like the extensive controll you have over color in the picture profiles. that option is basically the only reason I can see in it having the Cinealta badge (besides the 24p of course)
 
Ha... sorry Red south West, I guess I was posting at the same time as you.

Very true about the low light if you have a look at the Craine video on my site that is a example of its capabilities in terms of low light.

And I really hate 35mm adapters too...
 
Bruce Allen said:
Red South West

What bribe do you need to post the original R3D and native file format EX1 files? I can give you a FTP site - and other people can download happily until the bandwidth runs out.

Or should I just send you a drive along with chocolate / wine / beer?

I'm about to do a similar test. Am mostly interested in the stuff where you compared all 3 (eg ex1 vs ex1 + letus vs red).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

I think a fun test would RED Recording RAW onboard vs EX1 feeding a Capture card via the HD SDI output. that way we can look at the senor data from both and bypass the XDCAM codec.
 
Red South West said:
some stuff that is still in the mac -

very similar in this example. in the uncompressed mode, the red image is very much better, no doubt, but i can say that the sony does perform very well with the DR, but is has more the videolook.

it was very dark (outdoor evening and rainy weather), so both do a great job here.
both cams were open and shutter at 1/50.
red: redspace without any corrections ...
Click to expand...

If you look arround the face/nose area you can see a halo of artifacts on the EX1 footage. the RED in this regard looks much cleaner.

OK I think I have posted enought on this forum for 1 day :-)
 
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