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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red vs Genesis vs Alexa

Is transcoding necessary for Red footage? I work with R3D files directly in Premiere. Can't Avid also do this?
 
I'm thinking David is talking about Apple ProRes into an existing FCP workflow?
 
A film I thought "really popped" for the Genesis was the Steven Poster ASC shot film "The Box". He uses ProMist filters to help create a soft 70's look, but I thought the color of the film really showed off the Genesis.

The film was a commercial and critical flop, but Steven did some really great work here. Definitely worth a watch if you are interested in a stylized look the Genesis can achieve. :}
 
Tom Lowe said:
Is transcoding necessary for Red footage? I work with R3D files directly in Premiere. Can't Avid also do this?
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For long form in a large organisation where everyone deals with what he/she is good at, I'd say a loud and clear: YES

It also enhances the security in verifying the copy process.

If you're not doing "everything yourself" or a you are a "RED only" shop, transcoding is a neccisity.

That's why there are quite a few who want a prores module on the Epic for offlines.

When we enter Epic Land, with larger files to get realtime out of, transcoding will be even more neccessary...
 
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The Genesis, F35 and Alexa are all good cameras and can be used without hesitation. All have some pretty great projects on their resume. The biggest difference between the 1080P cameras and RED is the resolution (obviously). In the future, when 4K distribution becomes a reality, we think that being "future-proof" will be a big deal. That's why we started with 4K.

We have had a lot to learn over the past 3 years to catch up in some areas. We think we have done that with our color science and post options. The big advantage we have is mobility. Shooting REDCODE RAW is a primary example. No big boxes and ever improving color science makes REDCODE one of our biggest advantages.

No company has a monopoly on usefulness. There are cameras that can perform from many companies. We are happy to now be included on the list... instead of being called a scam. Those days are long past... mercifully.

EPIC and Scarlet represent our version of the future. Resolution, dynamic range, compact, easy to record to small solid state memory, good color science, an SDK program to include all industry players in RED workflows, incredible price/performance, and a willingness to listen to our customers hopefully make us a good option for many projects. Good news is you have choices.

Jim
 
And thats why we buy your cameras. :thumbsup:

Jannard said:
The Genesis, F35 and Alexa are all good cameras and can be used without hesitation. All have some pretty great projects on their resume. The biggest difference between the 1080P cameras and RED is the resolution (obviously). In the future, when 4K distribution becomes a reality, we think that being "future-proof" will be a big deal. That's why we started with 4K.

We have had a lot to learn over the past 3 years to catch up in some areas. We think we have done that with our color science and post options. The big advantage we have is mobility. Shooting REDCODE RAW is a primary example. No big boxes and ever improving color science makes REDCODE one of our biggest advantages.

No company has a monopoly on usefulness. There are cameras that can perform from many companies. We are happy to now be included on the list... instead of being called a scam. Those days are long past... mercifully.

EPIC and Scarlet represent our version of the future. Resolution, dynamic range, compact, easy to record to small solid state memory, good color science, an SDK program to include all industry players in RED workflows, incredible price/performance, and a willingness to listen to our customers hopefully make us a good option for many projects. Good news is you have choices.

Jim
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Let's say there's a reason to still hang around here, even after toying a bit with other cameras....
Features and image quality is one thing.

Another is that when one see a thing that could be bettered, it quite quickly is.

THAT is quite extraordinary.

It's been fun to see the image quality littelarily become better as time goes by.
Not that it ever was bad. But the last series I am onlining from M now - before the MX productions start to hit online, looks like a totally different camera than the first and would have been considered a great upgrade in itself. That is with the same hardware and no additional cost.

You sort of grow some custmerloyality that way.
And next year is thus scheduled for a bunch of Epic and MX productions...
Even with all the other good offerings being available...
 
I agree with Gunleik... feedback response and a willingness to change and refine design and hardware are an under-appreciated strength of Red. Arri and Panavision are good listeners too, Sony and Panasonic a little less so. But Red is the company who has used "crowdsourcing" (i.e. this forum) to great effect, listening and responding to users' suggestions to improve the platform.
Strictly speaking, from a technical/ aesthetic standpoint, David Mullen outlined it perfectly (as usual) Each camera comes with strengths and weaknesses, and different types of productions benefit from each camera's strengths.
As it has so often been said on this forum, "interesting times..."
Cheers,
Harry
 
Jannard said:
The Genesis, F35 and Alexa are all good cameras and can be used without hesitation. All have some pretty great projects on their resume. The biggest difference between the 1080P cameras and RED is the resolution (obviously). In the future, when 4K distribution becomes a reality, we think that being "future-proof" will be a big deal. That's why we started with 4K.

We have had a lot to learn over the past 3 years to catch up in some areas. We think we have done that with our color science and post options. The big advantage we have is mobility. Shooting REDCODE RAW is a primary example. No big boxes and ever improving color science makes REDCODE one of our biggest advantages.

No company has a monopoly on usefulness. There are cameras that can perform from many companies. We are happy to now be included on the list... instead of being called a scam. Those days are long past... mercifully.

EPIC and Scarlet represent our version of the future. Resolution, dynamic range, compact, easy to record to small solid state memory, good color science, an SDK program to include all industry players in RED workflows, incredible price/performance, and a willingness to listen to our customers hopefully make us a good option for many projects. Good news is you have choices.

Jim
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I guess my thoughts are no matter how many cameras are on that "list", those cameras weren't a real option before Red. I have never even seen a Genesis, F35, Alexa, etc. in person (it's hard to even catch a glimpse of them on a BTS featurette on DVD or Blu Ray). I have personally been able to shoot footage on a Red One.

That makes all the difference to me. Luckily, it's not one of those kinds of "almost good" cameras.

I've seen great stuff shot on all of the above mentioned cameras, I am just glad there is something on that list that I can actually shoot. :}
 
And Japanese are getting ready for 8k television, as shown at IBC, so "future proof" is always pretty relative, though I agree 4k should be good enough for theatrical distribution for a while. I don't know about other countries, but in Ireland and in Italy it's going to be a long time before recent digitally-equipped theaters move from 2k to 4k, it would be just too expensive. Besides, in the meantime 80% of movies are still shot on film.
 
The reports from the few exhibits of the new Series-2 Barco 4K DLP showed that the cleanest sharpest image was from the new 4K release scan of "Sound of Music"@70mm, which should prove that high resolution material is very important.

Images with most artefacts came from CGI portions of 4K material (and upconverted 2K material or blu-ray) obviously because the CGI was done at too low resolution. So take care that your CGI/VFX is produced at high enough resolution, both for 4K now and to make it "future proof".

The Sony 4K projector will not show this much artefacts because of the "softness/smear" of the SXRD/LCoS panel technology.

I suggest that people handling 4K material for 4K projection do extensive test of their material on Barco or Christi 4K DLP projectors and not relay on testing on only the Sony 4K which will "mask" a lot of "problems".
That could give you a "nasty surprise" when the material is shown on a much sharper 4K DLP machine.

High resolution and type of projector technology matters.

In addition for those interested;
Kodak recently unveiled a LASER light engine they have developed for DLP projectors that will give more brightness and wider color gamut. This Laser light engine technology will be leased for instalment in standard DLP DC projectors (2K/4K).

Reports;
A Day At Kodak (with some youtube video links)

The Kodak Laser Projector Technical Specifications
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Watch how fast that changes. :blink:
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Terry, I have no doubt it will change eventually, but I don't think it will happen overnight. Maybe 5 years from now 90% of movies will be shot digitally, maybe not. Personally I just love that cinematographers and filmmakers can have so many different tools and options to tell their stories. Choice is always a good thing..
 
Francesco Bonomo said:
Terry, I have no doubt it will change eventually, but I don't think it will happen overnight. Maybe 5 years from now 90% of movies will be shot digitally, maybe not. Personally I just love that cinematographers and filmmakers can have so many different tools and options to tell their stories. Choice is always a good thing..
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I think we would agree, then. I think that going from 80% on film to 90% digital in five years would be phenomenally fast. And look at how fast still photography switched to digital when affordable, high resolution, convenient form factor, RAW-capable DSLRs came about.
 
I always remember the time when i was a young aspiring photographer and i met an old time pro and i asked him about the new digital cameras that were coming out. He said digital would never take off (i think he mumbled something about dynamic range), so forget it and go with film. I listened to him. I will never make that mistake again.
 
Jason Sinclair said:
I always remember the time when i was a young aspiring photographer and i met an old time pro and i asked him about the new digital cameras that were coming out. He said digital would never take off (i think he mumbled something about dynamic range), so forget it and go with film. I listened to him. I will never make that mistake again.
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But at the time, and until extremely recently, he was 100% right.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
In defense of the Genesis, however, I'd say that it came out of the box more or less with excellent color and contrast reproduction, and with a well-trod HD post workflow behind it, and a well-designed LOG format that worked in a wide variety of color-correction devices. There's a good reason why so many Hollywood features and TV shows have been shot with it. And the footage didn't suffer from being mishandled the way Red footage could if the workflow wasn't properly thought-out.

This is the main reason the Alexa has taken off for TV work, the simplicity (and thus low cost) of importing Apple Pro-Pres files into the post workflow.

.
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Very well said. The workflow issue has been resolved by a few, but from what I hear on the streets and on this very forum thats the biggest bottleneck in Red-world.
 
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