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RED USERS UNDER ATTACK in GEORGIA

Same here... prices have doubled, but the salaries are the same [read: low].

But it will be OK in the long run, I hope.

The EU would be something very special, if it starts working for real.

But the greatest challenges lie ahead...

Difficult things ahead...
 
Nikolai, you mentioned that RED-Cam is a victim of media war, but why are you sure that you are not as well? I watch russian media, and they are way off the truth, trust me, really, no offence, but I am here, I am in the center of this events, and I can say for sure that Iknow what I am talking about, yes for sure you are more involved in this then any European citizen, or african, american or somebody else, and of course you can be sure that you know more then they do, because you are closer to this than they are, but hey, I am not close, it is about me. I do not need media to know what is going on, because here I am. So, trust me, the biggest lier at this stage is Russian media, this days I will post some footages taken by phones. or maybe I will not, this community does not deserve to see it, it is too devastating.

now once again I want to emphasize that my post, my attitude and mind is not against russian people, it is NOT, I have stated many times that Georgian and Russian nations have much more in common than us and US. And it was a mistake from russian politics that we are prowestern. that is because after soviet collapsed, we have been insulted many times by Russia, with help of Russia 2 of our ancient territories have been taken away, Russia has banned our wine and minerals waters just to do harm to our economy. Can any of Russian say honestly that Georgian Wine, and Borjomi is not good? we had more than 60% of market share in Russia. So this is exactly why we supported a president who is western oriented, this is why our nation is so much agains Russian politics. But think for yourself, if russia has supported us, if it not done anything agains our territorial integrity, if even more russia supported us to regain it, would we not be togather now? what did Georgia ever do to Russia? can you at least anything that we did to deserve that kind of approach from russia? or is it about russian iperializm?

one more thing, really again I want to emphasize nothing against you, but I want to ask you personally, you Nikolai, and please no hard feelings, it is a honest question from me to you, how does your dignity feel, how does your citizenship feel, how does a need of democracy inside of you feel, when in 21st century, your country has a president and his name is Medvedev, but in reality 3rd time i a raw it is putin? how does it feel, when on a major press conference, your president has finished his speach by reapeting putins words, how does it make you feel now that they are not even hiding it? whole world saw that medvedev is a pupet, does it make you feel proud of your country? and be honest to yourself, we all know who rules your country, does it not mean you are in a bit of slavery, where is your devotion for freedom? personal freedom. Even if country and people support putin's political vies, why are they making fool out of your people? and do not say it is not so important. because it does. what does not matter here is what is going on in Georgia, whatever, whoever started it or not, how did it feel when on august 8 putin and medvedev were sitting face to face, in front of TV cameras, and not even hiding anything, putin was stricktly giving assinments to medvedev. sorry, hope you do not take it personally, I honestly respect you, and any russian national. but this is a question, I am really interested, because no matter what your media has to say about Georgia, one is a fact, your country has a president, and president of your country has president, PRESIDENT of a PRESIDENT.

P.S. sorry, I might have written, Russia with small letter, this is no way insulting, Georgian language does not have capital letters, and it takes hard thinking to be concentrating to write with capital letters for me, I hope you take it as it is.

Wish you all the well, and mainly PEACE. Right now, the world is under a threat of bigger war than in Georgia. so peace is something we all need now.
 
and one more question I want to add.

when russians are blamed for what they did in Georgia, when they are critisized for that, when we or anybody else asks, why did you bomb our cities, why did you invade us, why did you blown up port 300 kilometers away from conflict zone. (by the way, whole Georgia is no more than 600 kilometers in length) what russia has to answer? the same as you here on the thread. You justify it by bringing examples what US have done in Belgrade or other cases, or what happened in a story with cosovo. But look, does it not mean that you are saing that what US have done is wrong? So how does doing wrong, justify doing wrong? What kind of an excuse is that? and after all, what Georgian people have to do with what US have done in other places? WHAT KIND OF AN EXCUSE IS THAT FROM RUSSIAN NATION TO GEORGIAN NATIONA? I do not want to get into discussion what US have done, does it matter to me? to my friends here? to mothers of boys who have died? to those little children in Georgia who were so scared and we, men of Geogia, could not calm them? And do not say that we deserve it just because we have friendly relations with US, what kind of logic is that? If you think that what US has done to Belgrad or Iraq is wrong, go and do something about it, and do it to US, not Georgia. Because by saying what US has done is wrong, you are admiting that what you russia has done is wrong as well, but think about it for a moment, does it matter to those girls raped by russian soldiers? IT DOES NOT!!!!!!! go and fuck US if you can, what do we have to do with Kosovo history?

You know that there is no answer to this question, other than denying that Russia did not do anything to us, but if you believe my words, when russian TV was saying for example that there are no troops in Gori, I, myself have witnessed them there, when russia was saying that bombs were striking only military destinations, it has dromped some 1 kilometer from where I live in capital city on a mountain, without any military destination, and to be clear it was not a civilian place as well, it was just a hill, but what was the aim of those bombs in capital? to scare us, 3 bombs to demoralize us, and no military objective at all.

One more thing, when our army has destroyed one of the planes, and arrested the pilot, they have found a "Praezdnoi na troleibus" in his pocket, you know what that is, I felt sorry for the guy, does russia has nothing else to offer to its highest class pilots than that? Why does russia not respect its heroes? Its a shame, when a derjava like russia does not value its soldiers. When they interview the guy, I felt so sorry for him, I sympathised him, because he was saing "an order is an order", it was not his fault, I hope he will be fine and taken care of.

( just for everybody who does not know, "Praezdnoi na troleibus", is a card that gives you a free ride on a troely bus in Moscow. It is considered that government gives this to those who can not afford to ride a troley bus, the worst mean of transportaion in the world. So why a high class pilot in russia can not afford to ride a troley bus? )

I remember in 1989, I was 10 years old, this was a time when Soviet was braking up, Tbilisi was full a rally for freedom, and Soviet army has entered Georgia, they have killed 13 people in streets of Tbilisi, and it was horrible deaths, because they have used shovels to kill people, my neighbour, had a stomach digged out with it. And I remember, very clearly, that the whole country was in a tradegy, 13 kids, no more than 22 year old have been killed. and I was a child, and there was a tank, right on a square in front of my apartment, and the Russian soldiers did look so sad, me and my friends have brought a lemonade with and kachapuri (georgian food) and brought it to them, with honest hearts. The guys were really scared to try it, we left them and observed from the rooftop, it took them nearly half an hour to eat and drink it because they were affraid that we would poison them. and I felt very sorry for them, they really were hungry, and they were not the same forces who have killed the people, they were peacful, just to patrool, but they still were from the side that have brought a tradegy to our country, but we children did not understand why they had to starve. They were doing what they were ordered to do.

what is the moral of this things?! I do not know, but I know that what is happening now in Georgia is wrong, no matter what else in the world is wrong, we have to admit it is wrong, and even thou we are small nation, only 4.5 million, we have to be respected, our history has to be respected, our territory has to be respected, and maybe it does not matter to some specific person in mexico, or in South Africa, will Georgia exist or not, but it does not change the fact that - IT IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
 
now about truth the russia is claiming to propaganda. They have signed the cease fire agreement about 48 hours ago. Their troops are still on Georgian territory (which they have been denying yesterday) and they are leaving now, but russian officials now said that it takes time, and they need 3 days to do it, but hey it took them 32 hours to enter and occupy Georgia from scratch. (as russians say, it was us who started it, so how could they be ready?!) so think, troops that have not been mobilized, managed to mobilize and occupy Geogia, and now they say that they are leaving but it takes time, 3 days. Where is the lie? Is it that they were mobilized and started it? why did they deny for last 2 days that troops were not in Georgia any more? or is it that they do not need really 3 days, it is just an excuse? So lets say no more that Russia is being true. (not talking about being correct) they start to show their face, their lies are now messed up, they can not control it any more.
 
and for you Nikolai, specially for you, to make sure that you know the truth, and to make sure you never say anything about victims of media, I want you to know.

Right now it was aired on TV, and I will do my best to put this footage on youtube for tomorrow, I want you to watch, what your peacekeepers are doing. I pity them, because, like the pilot with free trolley bus ride card, they are also not respected at all. You will see how one of your peacekeepers is stealing a spoon, usual spoon, or, how your peacekeeper is aiming a gun on a journalist, how your peacekeepers stole cars from Canadian journalist, how your peacekeepers, brake into a bank office and they are so stupid that instead of braking a ATM, they steal a desktop computer, your peacekeepers wound a Georgian journalist while she is live on TV on stand up. You will see, how they brake into Georgian military base, and are talking with envy "look at this Georgians soldiers, what nice beds they have, how nice this facilities are, and we are living like dogs" this is exactly their words, and full of envy this guys destroy everything there. I am sorry for your nation, even thou it is bigger, stronger and wealthier, I am sorry for your people even thou you have oil and gas and other resources, because you do not have main thing - FREEDOM.

I promise, I will post this videos, and you will all see, this is what I am going to do tomorrow morning first thing.

After watching this, never, never ever compare anything that US has done to anybody, because I am sure that US soldiers have enough dignity not to steal a spoon, a fucking spoon. An you know why? because no matter what Bush does, no matter what he can be criticized of, that nation respects their honor, that nation respects their soldier, and soldiers of that nation is payed enough not to steal a spoon.!!!!
 
Levan, I don't want to argue with you. Stealing a spoon... big deal, even if it is true. Of course killing innocent people is nothing compared to stealing the spoon.

Interesting video:
12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth on Fox News about Georgia. Fox News even had to cut them off right in the middle of the account of Georgian aggression even though they had just come from a commercial break 2 minutes prior to that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

We don't need THAT kind of democracy, Levan, sorry.
 
Nikolai Vavilov said:
Levan, I don't want to argue with you. Stealing a spoon... big deal, even if it is true. Of course killing innocent people is nothing compared to stealing the spoon.

Interesting video:
12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth on Fox News about Georgia. Fox News even had to cut them off right in the middle of the account of Georgian aggression even though they had just come from a commercial break 2 minutes prior to that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

We don't need THAT kind of democracy, Levan, sorry.
Click to expand...

at least news reporters in this kind of democracy don't have to worry about being killed by the government.
 
Nikolai, what about my other question?

Thou, I think when a soldier is degraded to that level that he steals a spoon, imagine what he does to something more valuable.

Do not hide from truth, be honest to yourself.
 
The Internet is very hard to censor.

It will be increasingly hard to control information with all these sites like youtube.

And all the footages\interviews from cell phones and such.

Of course, it will also become harder to filter the truth from the crap.
 
and also I want to emphasize that there is also no way we could win an internet war as well, russians are 100 times more than Georgians, so everyforum, every blog, youtube and everything is full of them, of course doing a antiGeorgia propaganda. It makes no sense to fight that.
 
Levan, you are there, and see these things happening first hand. You definitely know a lot more about this than most of us. But so was that girl on Fox News that wasn't able to say very much on air. You can't just ignore what she has to say.

I'm not trying to pick sides. But everything you hear is biased a lot it seems. From you, and from Nikolai. It's easily understandable why you two are. All we can really do is try and understand what is happening by listening to the biased input on both sides.
 
Well it does appear that Georgia attacked first, last Thursday. US trainers have been instructing them for the last 4 years. It seems highly unlikely they would have attacked the province of S. Ossetia without Washington's approval, blessing, and encouragement (order). It's an idiotic move to attack a province protected by Russia, from the POV of the Georgians, unless other goals outside of the conflict are considered.

This seems like cold war tit for tat games, as we have seen since WW2.
 
First of all, considering the youtube video. Of course it does matter what the girls has to say, but again I want to restate what I have said in earlier posts, what does this has to do with Georgia? is that TV channel controlled by Georgians or what? Or, does the US actions is Kosovo has to do anything with Georgia? Secondly, this video looks fake to me, but it does not matter. It looks fake, because first of all, there were no caffee in tskhinvali, trust me, and secondly it was not sudden at all, nobody would sit in the cafe when the city was bombed, and also it was not bombed until russian army has bombed it with cassete bombs, go and read Human's Rights Watch report.

Now as for who started it, nobody says that Georgia was not the country who first entered Tskhinvali with troops. But let me ask you following. Imagine that in California mexican population start the war and kick all of the rest of the populations out of that state, with the help of the mexican government. (assuming that mexica is as strong as russia) and then they declare that they want to have independence. And mexican government supports them. And then after 15 years of separatism, they start to fire and invade some villages on the border to nevada. just on the border, not in Vegas. So, then your president would tell them, hey guys lets stop it, I will forgive all to you, and lets sit again after all this years, and negotiate. But they refuse to negotiate and become even more agressive to nevada villages. After this US president would adress them that he has his forces mobilize on the border, and if they do not stop fire on our villages, he would attack. But they do not stop, and even more, become even more agressive, to be correct it does not mean that they bombed our villages, but would fire on houses, and rob our villages and so on. Of course, then US would enter california, all the way to LA. who would blame? This is exactly what happened in Georgia. Yes it was us who started it, yes, but did we have a reason for it? what else could we do? This is our land, our land is hald of whole california, even less. and taking some parts away from us, how can we let it happen? Russians already have taken enough from us. So what was the answer from russia? they are still in Georgia, their soldiers are stealing toilets from the houses, poor russian guys, how can you steal a toilet, I means used toilet, why do you need it? what are you going to do with it, have it in the tank or what? And one more thing, all was not enough, they have dropped fire bombs on our forests to burn it, can you imagine that? most beatutifull place in Georgia is on fire, because they envy, everything we have. what kind of a human can you be to drop a fire bomb on a forest? and they do not even let fire departments go there and fight the fire, so there it is burning. This was the place where Soviet leaders used to go on vacation, only limited amount of people could go there, only ministers and their families, this was the best place to go during Soviet Era, and now they can not stand the fact that this is not under their control any more and burn it. BURN IT. can you imagine that?

I promised to put footages, and I will, it is just that I am not in the situation right now to freely be able to do all I want, but I will, and you will all see what russia means by PeaceKeeping. Yesterday, they robed a lady, who was visiting Georgia on vacation, with her 2 childs, she was heading towards tbilisi, they stoped her car, and took away everything they had. Luckily they have not hurt her, so she come to Tbilisi, and you know what? It appeared that she was Russian, a citizen of Russia, all 3 of them. and she went to Russian embassy, and they did not even listen to her, so she was so mad about it, she was on TV, talking about it. it is her words - " How can russians say that they are here to keep peace, how can they say that they are here to protect russian citizens, look what they did to me. And she clearly says that it was Russian and Ossetian soldiers ". Stupid, that is what I call it.

Also, just to let you know one more thing, when Georgians have entered Tskhinvali, they found a car, with 5000 russian passports, new. So, this is what they call russian citizens, they just give everyone a passport to justify it. Haha. How can russian citizens live in Ossetia, when only 2% of population was russian citizen in 1992. only 2%.

And Nikolai, it is sad that out of 3 or 4 long posts, full of questions from my side, your answer was only the youtube video, which is what? something that has nothing to do with Georgia. And even a to me it looks fake, but even if it is real.

Now one more thing again, it has been almost 4 days, Medvedev was on TV, with EU president on press conference, where he said that he would withdraw his forces from Georgia, and 4 of our cities, all of the main roads, seaport and railway routs, are still occupied by russian tanks, they are robing and killing people. It was during this days, when they killed 2 international Journalist. Yesterday, even a cease fire document was signed, and if a WORD from medvedev worth nothing, we hoped that his SIGNATURE would matter, but nothing have changed, they even entered with more tanks, and started to burn forests. (just for information, so that nobody lies that this is a fire started by heat, never, in history of Georgia, had this forests burned, this is not a california to have the fire started because of the heat, this is in mountains, and there are evidence of special fire bombs, and there are 5 places where fire started simultaneously)

I will keep you updated, what more damage will russian bring.
 
just type in Looting in Gori on youtube, you will see almost anything I have talked about here. also go to www.sosgeorgia.org, it might not be high speed server but if you are interested in truth, you can see.

sorry, russians not only attacked our cities, people, forsets, hosues, woman, but also have attacked our internet, I am almost not able to view youtube videos. but search returned results. so try it yourself.

yesterday, they have fired on a car, where Turkish journalist were sitting, they had camera on, you should see that, more than 100 bullets hit the car, fortunatelly, only driver was wounded. But when you look at that footage you will know that war is wrong.
 
one more update. after 5 days of cease fire agreement, russians have blown up a railway bridge, that connected east and weast of Georgia, I guess this is also to keep peace. PEACEKEEPERS.

I think, russian army does not even obey president of russia, either that or medvedev is not a man, hi does not value his word, he does not value his signature. so what is he?

I just realised that this thread has become like my diary. :*)
 
this thread is not popular any more, but I just wanted to say, Shame on you russia, and shame on you rest of the world. I did not know that in todays world, something like this could happen, now this is getting out of all limits, this is not war any more, this is an attempt for slavery, and shame on you everybody who does not take it seriously.

Nikolai, be ashamed for you are russian, be ashamed, no matter what your govrnment tells you. Remember my words!!! this is uncivilized country, with power that they do not deserve to have, because all the power requires responsiblity, and Russia is very irresponsible.

I am sorry for myself, and for the rest of the world, because they exist on the same planet as we do. :*( I am so fed up with all this, you can not imagine. I never wish anybody, even Russians to be in this situation. and I am tired to repeat what the situation is like.
 
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