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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED TWO (speculation)

Jim Retar said:
If we are gonna enter dreamworld....
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There is no a dreamworld here just because there is already technology possible to make right away.. and could all cost about $1000 Bucks...
 
I can't see this happening. In fact I would HOPE this doesn't happen. I like the way RED is set up now, a professional digital company. Not a consumer company.

Several reasons why this shouldn't happen:
- RED is ramping up on their most ambitious product lineup to date. 3 sensors over multiple "sku's". Why detract.
- Support will be hard enough for the above mentioned lineup. Why would you want to try and support the amateurs.
- Professional. Not that this means "expensive" but it means serious customers with clients and projects to deliver.
- 4k and beyond. It's a distraction from working towards 4k delivery and a complete workflow.

In the end it's all about focusing the company to deliver products for professionals. It doesn't mean amateurs can't use them, but it's designed for the pro in mind.

think about a talented kid (call him in this case Stanley Kubrik if you want):

When he was a kid he was playing with 8mm film camera from his father,

when he was grown up then he became a great movie director (was shooting s35mm film).

Why not repeat this story today(?):
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That's why god invented the vdslr.
 
There is no a dreamworld here just because there is already technology possible to make right away.. and could all cost about $1000 Bucks...
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How do you know?
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
You can't gain distribution (power) before you get acquisition...
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Sure you can. With a high quality delivery codec that can be implemented in many ways, not the least of which is internet delivery, which as we all know is gaining market share quite quickly. Hmmm....and a nice display to watch it on....
 
Justin Chin said:
In the end it's all about focusing the company to deliver products for professionals. It doesn't mean amateurs can't use them, but it's designed for the pro in mind.
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Today a category of professional it looks pretty washed out thing...isn't it... get right tool to a kid that her/his result also looks professional (in old fashion way)...


Justin Chin said:
That's why god invented the vdslr.
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It's not sort of God thing just because is missing RAW...
 
Let's think RED want to deliver a (professional) 1080p RAW camera tool that can support near future iPad HD content acquisition and delivery.

Very simple but suddenly this can turn out as a real powerful and professional little camera device...
 
Today a category of professional it looks pretty wash out thing...isn't it... get right tool to a kid that her/his result also looks professional (in old fashion way)...
Click to expand...

The reverse is also true. You can get unprofessional results from the RED One. It doesn't mean you have to serve that market. In the future I'd prefer not to hear the arguments about my RED Epic being the same as your speculated $1k RED camera. We already get that with the VDSLR market. Hell, I had to convince my last client why he wanted to use my RED instead of his 7D for a major marketing campaign with a large clothing company.

It's not sort of God thing just because is missing RAW...
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See above comment.
 
I don't really see how this would be revolutionary..

To buy a 5D is roughly $3500 give or take.

Red is planning to release one of the Scarlets for roughly $4000.

For what both cameras do, I thought it was obvious that the Scarlet was the answer to the DSLR market for indie film makers.
 
Tim Morton said:
I don't really see how this would be revolutionary..

To buy a 5D is roughly $3500 give or take.
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5DMK2 is a high end still photo camera basically...later with added limited video capability!!!!

So let those guys give a right 1080p RAW video tool (RED TWO /the name is a speculation only/) for about $1000 Bucks and they will be all very happy with that...!!!
 
Hopefully I'm not the only one who thinks Sanjin is completely off his nut here... As far as I'm concerned, RED TWO and EPIC are the same thing.

Now, I would still love to see RED do that "professional pocket camera" that Scarlet was originally announced as. I love the whole Scarlet thing and I'm buying the 8X fixed version (probably more than one) and possibly the interchangeable as well. But let's face it. Even Melvin would have a tough time pocketing Scarlet.
 
$1000? No way.

2K? No Way!

I've argued elsewhere for a 3K S35 RED camera.

It should have the same specs and price as the Scarlet 2/3" Cinema (interchangeable lens) model... the only difference being that it should have an "S35" sized sensor. (i.e. one the same size as a R1 MX or Epic S sensor.)

I reason that the electronics of this camera can be identical to the Scarlet 2/3" Cinema- except for the sensor block, which can in great part be re-used from the Epic S (formerly Scarlet S35). I further reason that an S35 3K sensor should cost less than a S35 5K sensor.

This is still a professional camera capable of delivering excellent 2K+ results.

If you accept this then...

Scarlet is the 3K Red Lineup with sensors from 2/3" to S35. These are the cameras for low end professionals and very small budget independent film- maybe very serious hobbyists. You know... prosumer.

Epic is the 5-6K lineup with sensors from S35 to FF35. Professional users from big tent cinema to any other use you care to imagine.

Eventually there will be a 645 sensor... and I think it should have a different name. How about "Red MAX?"

Finally there will be that 28K monstrosity... and it should probably be called something else. Red Ginormica is my vote. (mostly joking)

Another way of looking at this is

Scarlet=The camera for today
Epic=The camera for tomorrow
Red Max=The IMAX camera of tomorrow
Red Ginormica=The camera that requires a theater the size of the landscape you're photographing.

Humor aside, its not an unreasonable product lineup.

It accomplishes the goal of making RedCode more ubiquitous and getting users to think more of RAW workflow than RGB.

It further establishes Red's modular concept in the market. It exploits one advantage of modularity no one talks about at Red... the idea that you can grow your system. After all my reimagined Scarlet S35 will use the same accessories as Epic... if a user buys one and builds a system they will lower the barrier to entry for the real deal Epic systems.

It makes sense.

If Red wants to push the envelope with such a camera there is definitely room for it. Look at how small the mirrorless "EVIL" cameras are. Making an S35 professional camera that size is a worthy challenge to RED.

With still capabilities like a 7D, 3K video worthy of the name Red, sized like a compact camera or DSLR and a body price like a 5DMK2 it would shake the market.

Again.
 
I think a little more respect is due Mr. Jannard and his crew than this speculation would imply. He is a proven business leader and there is no one on the planet who knows RED's strengths and weaknesses better than he. And you can bet he and his team have assessed their opportunities, as well as any and all threats to the success of their business strategy. If they are working on this, well... I guess that I am totally crazy. But I doubt it. It would require a technical effort that would interrupt what they are already committed to doing with Scarlet, Epic and Monstro. If it were even possible, it would require an infrastructure and product support system way (waaaaaay!) beyond what they can currently offer. I love shooting the RED ONE, I can't wait to get my hands on my Scarlet, and I am very willing to trust Jim as to where he wants to take RED in the future. :mellow:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I think a little more respect is due Mr. Jannard and his crew than this speculation would imply. He is a proven business leader and there is no one on the planet who knows RED's strengths and weaknesses better than he. And you can bet he and his team have assessed their opportunities, as well as any and all threats to the success of their business strategy. If they are working on this, well... I guess that I am totally crazy. But I doubt it. It would require a technical effort that would interrupt what they are already committed to doing with Scarlet, Epic and Monstro. If it were even possible, it would require an infrastructure and product support system way (waaaaaay!) beyond what they can currently offer. I love shooting the RED ONE, I can't wait to get my hands on my Scarlet, and I am very willing to trust Jim as to where he wants to take RED in the future. :mellow:
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I disagree. Its speculation. It serves two purposes:

1) It gives customers a voice about what they WANT (as opposed to what RED wants to deliver)

2) Its entertaining to the speculators

To state that its insulting to Red and Jim Jannard is kind of silly. I don't think its insulting in the least.

Its useful for a business to hear these things, even if they are off the wall, silly or impossible.

Its even a sort of compliment. "Here are my dreams RED. Can you make them real?" You wouldn't ask that of most companies- because they could never deliver. Red has delivered on a lot of dreams.

Dreams evolve.

OK... so Scarlet. I'm not terribly interested in a 2/3" camera platform except for 3D. You are. Great. More power to you.

So Red tickled your itch, so let me voice my itch.

So, an Epic is in my future. I agree with Red that I can't justify shooting 2K when 4K is inevitable and coming sooner than we all think.

I think that a 3K S35 camera would not impact that. I don't think Peter Jackson is going to send back his Epics for such a camera.

On the flip side... a 3K S35 camera makes a huge amount of sense even to someone like me who is committed to the 4K+ future.

For one, I can afford to risk that camera. I can't afford to risk an EPIC (M, X or S: all of them are too expensive for me to risk.)

Second, while its inferior, you can upconvert 3K RAW up to 4K delivery much better than 1080p. (I'd argue that it will be roughly as good as upconverting 720p to 1080p.) Its futureproof on a budget.

Now, getting to the infrastructure argument you make.

The only additional piece of infrastructure is a 3K S35 sensor. Use the optical block design from Epic S, and the rest of the brain from Scarlet Cinema.

I'm not saying thats easy... but its not as daunting as you make out.

The camera I propose still wouldn't be cheap. For one I'm asking for a ~$2800 brain. Add in SSD and the rest of the needed RED accessories but without lenses, and you are looking at a shooting system priced just under an Epic S brain only. That's a prosumer price... but on the high end of that market.

Now... finally, Red doesn't seem bothered by these silly threads.

If you are, then ignore them! You are not obliged to read them.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Tom.

think about a talented kid (call him in this case Stanley Kubrik if you want):

When he was a kid he was playing with 8mm film camera from his father,

when he was grown up then he became a great movie director (was shooting s35mm film).

Why not repeat this story today(?):

When he was a kid he was playing with RED TWO 1080p RAW (REDCODE) camera from his father,

when he was grown up then he became a great movie director (was shooting 5K EPIC).
Click to expand...

Sanjin, you are a visionary, my friend. :thumbsup:

But why are you saying 1080p RAW? That is barely 720p resolution. In order to get a clean 1080p, you will need a 3K Bayer sensor. If Red did make an S35 3K Bayer sensor, the photosites would be very large (gigantic), and the camera could potentially be blessed stellar high-ISO performance, (perhaps a usable ISO 6400?), much the same as Nikon's new D3s still camera, which leaves the total megapixel count very low for a full-frame 35mm still camera, resulting in fantastic low-light capabilities.

Jeff, the difference between this Scarlet 35 camera and the Epic would be 3K vs 5K.
 
:party:
Jim Retar said:
If we are gonna enter dreamworld.... why not just go the whole way?

S35, 6k, 5000fps, 24 stops DR, built in 50TB harddrive... the size of an iphone, underwater, 3D, built in 4K projector, fixed T1 6mm-1000m lens.

$39.99 from your local walmart.
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well put Jim...and i thought LALA land was just a refrence to Los Angeles. How wrong was i? Sometimes these threads equate to Digital mental masterbation, and ironically right before NAB every year.Just seems some people have a boatload of freetime on their hands.
 
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