Red Touch 7" Monitor Brightness No In Line With Histogram?

[Jonathan Pears]

New to Red from the Alexa world here.... Shooting on Gemini with the Red Touch 7", using the IPP2 pipeline (images attached for monitor and camera settings). I am seeing a pretty huge difference between what the monitor is showing to my eye, and what the histogram is saying. I know that the histogram represents reflected and not incident light, but this is too far apart for that to be playing a part here.

Camera Settings
- Mode: IPP2
- Color Space/Gamma Curve: RedWideGamutRGB/Log3G10
- Output Color Space: Rec709

Monitor Settings
- Display Preset: Red709/SDR
- Brightness: Three clicks less than full brightness

The Scene and the Issue
- In the candid images, there is a textured white wall in the background of the image. There is also texture in the wood on the fence.
- One shot, to my eye at the time looking at the monitor, was completely blowing out the wall and wood, yet the histogram is right in the middle whilst trailing darker
- In the other image i had stopped down 1.5 stops to bring out the texture, but the histogram doesn't move much
- In resolve, the images lean towards the darker side, whilst salvageable are not in line with the monitor at all - this is the issue

Now with my ignorance hat on, here are some thoughts...
1. I'm an idiot, this is just how it is, and i need to stop being so sensitive to a bright monitor.... a good possibility, who needs to see an accurate image right.... sigh
2. There is some simple setting i am missing here, and one change of something will solve everything?
3. The image isn't accurate, but the histogram is to the raw data that the camera is aquiring, so only rely on that and ignore the monitor when it starts to give you a sun burn from how bright its getting?
4. I am somehow adding 2 layers of Rec709 onto the image? Unlikely as colors still look accurate elsewhere
5. Something else entirely?

I hooked up an Atomos Shogun to do a side by side, and even at its full 1500nits, the Shogun isn't showing as bright of an image (from an exposure point of view) as the Red Touch. Also yes, i am using the left side monitor connection via wooden camera cable.

Any thoughts on the above from anyone? Many Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Jon

 

[Les Hillis]

Your settings and results look normal and as expected to me.

A waveform in the middle of the histogram can be noisy.

I still usually take an ETTR (Expose To The Right) approach, overexposing to just beneath clipping and then readjusting in post, using the goalposts and stop lights as exposure indicators just as much as the waveform itself.

The 'Log View' setting/tool (Menu>Overlays>Tools>Log View) can also be useful, to flatten out the image on the monitor and show something more like what's actually being captured in the RAW data.

In Legacy mode, the 'Log View' tool is called 'RAW'. Incidentally, in that mode, when you toggle the 'RAW' tool on and off, the waveform in the histogram changes to show the difference between the 'RAW' image and the 'normal' one you'd usually see that's had a contrast curve added to it (eg.RC2/RG4). In IPP2 mode, the histogram just shows the 'Log View/RAW' waveform all the time, which might be less representative of what's being seen on the 'Medium Contrast/Medium Roll-Off' monitored image.

Unless there actually is something else at play, I think it is just a case of having to trust the tools and meters rather than the (limited) image you're seeing on the monitor.

 

[Jonathan Pears]

Thanks Les, i think what you said about the image actually being representitive on the monitor is correct. After more extensive testing last night there is a consistent loss of highlights on the visual side of the monitor thats not inline with the histogram/stop lights etc. I can work in that world, as i have no choice, it would just be nice to have a rolling scale of what you can see along the lines of what Atomos does with their HDR monitoring and being able to see more than the normal IRE scale. It will be disconcerting for clients too when they see that monitor, i foresee a bunch of explaning to people in my future

I did a comparison with the Atomos last night too, and with it you can bring back those highlights and see a more accurate image. It is pretty great just how much you can bring back out of the highlights in post with IPP2, but from what i can tell the Atomos HDR is the only on camera solution i can find to be able to see into that pipeline at aquisition. I'm quite sure i'm wrong about it being the only solution, but at least from the tools around me currently its the only way.

Will continue testing!