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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Support for Adobe

BOXXLabs said:
In the words of Jim - "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it."


My bet is that the functionality of the Adobe plugin for r3d will exceed everybody's expectations when it's released.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're right, the one problem is though that the expectations grow as the time increases. I've read/written that with how long it's taken audio should now be included. It makes me wonder what else has been tacked onto our "hope list" while we've been waiting.
 
this is the wrong attitude toward assimilate. almost everyone knows assimilate is actually on the side of the revolution. you know if you don't own digibeta decks, hdsr decks, arri film scanners etc, scratch is not for you period. its a professional backend and frontend product that is considered cheap and revolutionary by all professional industry standards.
 
Actually, instead of just bitching, maybe I should do something about it...

What I think would be very useful is if information was gathered together into a proper "user guide" instead of being spread all over these boards.

So if people want to email me with the current options for PC-based workflow, then I will put it together into a single document and post it here.

Please list all pros and cons of the workflows.

Does that sound like a useful idea?
 
Fcp-Crimson-Redcine-Color it's a very powerful workflow if you can handle right. I'm making the color correction of a short film of 18 minutes shot with Fabio Cianchetti the dop of "The Dreamers" by Bernardo Bertolucci and "Go go tales" by Abel Ferrara. I was able to import all the Fcp timeline into Redcine with Crimson and to export all the dpx in separate folders, if you follow carefully the instructions everything works really fine.
And Scratch is great.
 
This thread is entertaining... and I'm becoming very cynical at the countless delays. The attitude that "things can, and will change" is getting extremely tiresome, when it's used as an excuse to delay in-demand products indefinitely. It appears that when it comes to software, a lot of concessions are being made for the benefit of RED's business partners, at the cost of RED's customers, who were also RED's earliest investors.

Someone please prove me wrong.
 
kylemallory said:
This thread is entertaining... and I'm becoming very cynical at the countless delays. The attitude that "things can, and will change" is getting extremely tiresome, when it's used as an excuse to delay in-demand products indefinitely. It appears that when it comes to software, a lot of concessions are being made for the benefit of RED's business partners, at the cost of RED's customers, who were also RED's earliest investors.

Someone please prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

Adam mentioned something about perspective. I think he's right. Adobe's development release cycle is about 18 months. "Indefinitely?" Please... this is moving incredibly fast for them as a company.

You can be cynical - or realistic. RED announces things much much earlier than most technology companies do. I believe they do this out of good will for their customers... letting them know what is coming. But, they've been burned enough by people slamming them for "delays" that they're much quieter now about development and giving people glimpses under the kimono. As a result, you'll hear a lot less, and consequently probably won't be as cynical.

You (and I) are spoiled by this website and the amazingly open policy that RED has about its internal workings. You want a more traditional tech company that doesn't breathe a word about stuff until it's basically ready to release? You want RED to be more like Apple in their announcement strategies? Be careful what you wish for.

From a manufaturer standpoint, it's always a balance between managing expectations and delivery. Tricky thing to do.

Lucas
 
people seem to forget that redalert and redcine are free, the R3d codec for Adobe is coming out free. safe to say I want the codec ASAP. But how dare you and I put pressure on a company to pay its workers overtime to give you a product for free, they do it at thier own interest.

All I have been Asking for is to give us the first beta as it existed. period

I know somone is going to say but I bought the red camera I need to be able to use the footage. Well the answer is you can. You can go to your local post house and pay for footage conversion or use the various free products availabe on Reds website.
its like telling Arri or Kodak to develop your film for free after shooting with thier product. think about it.

Its in assimilate's and our best interest that luki even comes on this site. there is a vast amount of workflow knowhow they are sharing with Adobe and red, to think less of them is apalling.
 
kylemallory said:
It appears that when it comes to software, a lot of concessions are being made for the benefit of RED's business partners, at the cost of RED's customers, who were also RED's earliest investors.
Click to expand...

Do you have inside info that Red is holding up Adobe support intentionally in favor of apple and assimilate?
 
I think an open source user manual is a good idea. A wiki might be a good way to go, rather than placing all the work upon the shoulders of AntonyCASAFilms... but I'll kick it off with my VERY limited, and probably faulty understanding of the current state of affairs:

So current PC only workflow options:
1 Shoot R3d, transcode to Cineform 4K AVI edit in PPro w/ Cineform, output to preferred format

Pros:
VERY fast
great image quality

Cons:
need to back up your R3d AND your cineform transcodes
must transcode all footage from R3d to cineform before editing
must purchase cineform on top of adobe CS3 or 4
cineform engine replaces much of premiere pro renderer which is sometimes buggy with other plugins and media management operations (at least it has been in the past)

Questions:
How is color correction handled- are these maintaining the full color range of the original Raw redcode footage?
How does this work with after effects?
Is there a proxy/low res path for slower computers or offline/online workflow?

2 Shoot R3d, transcode to CineformExpress at faster than realtime
edit in ppro, then transcode the required files in prospect4k, and re-link.

Pros: faster than realtime transcode
fast playback

Cons: not full res
must go through offline/online conform process which doesn't sound that straight forward
see cons for traditional CF workflow

Questions: same as above.


3) Adobe CS4 native R3D support- import R3d files to Ppro or AE, edit, export.

Pros: no extra software to buy
looks simple
great interoperability with AE and Encore
simple down-res for playback on laptops
no transcoding required

Cons:
I don't see audio support
plugin development seems to be stalled, no official release date
playback performance of higher res footage is an unknown
changing resolutions requires re-opening of the project

Questions:
How do you open a clip to set ins/outs in Ppro? Since double-clicking in the project view now opens up the importer dialogue- unlike any other footage behavior.

How does color correction work in this workflow?

Thats what I got so far.
 
Tom, with all due respect, regarding your Cons comments about the CineForm workflow:

1) If there are bugs, please report them. Non-specific comments of "it's buggy" a) aren't helpful to us for fixing them - most people know us as responsive; and b) such comments, without specificity, can be misleading to others.

2) There is no conform process for CineForm Express files, and generally couldn't be easier. I don't think you've done your research very thoroughly. Switching between Express files and full-res CineForm Master files takes seconds: a) you unlink your Express files, and b) you relink the project to full-res CineForm media. All Active Metadata, transitions, effects, etc remain in place with no conform required.

Please view the tutorial video prepared by Chris Harvey that summarizes the Prospect 4K workflow for Red One in PPro/Win: http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=21171
 
Thanks for pointing those out David.

As I said, I have limited and probably faulty knowledge of these things.

1) I guess I'm basing my "it's been buggy for me in the past" on my experiences with AspectHD for Ppro 2 w/ DVCProHD MXF files. I was never able to get the project manager tool to properly trim an aspect project- this could have been adobe's fault as well, I never solved the problem. But I'm now able to use this tool with native dvcprohd projects, (at least until they get to be too complex- then it just gets buggy in general). I'm sure it's different now than it was then, both from Cineform and Adobe's software updates.

2) That's good news, I will watch the video.

This is why I think a wiki would be a good way of managing an opensource workflow user-guide. Where people like me might drop in the random un-specific rant about bugginess, another user like David could correct and update with newer, more accurate information.
 
tomk358, a brilliant idea.

So here it is.... http://red-workflow.wikispot.org/Front_Page

I have incorporated some of your posting, but as I have no idea what CineForm Express is or how to use it, I will let you edit the wiki to provide more details....

I have added a stub for Mac workflow too, but as I will not be using a Mac, I will leave other people to add to that page.

Thanks,
Antony
 
Just to get in clear in my mind.....All the other workflows have audio except F-DPX Files?
 
I haven't seen anyone post this, and I'm not sure how up to date it is, but hey! At least it is on-topic:sarcasm:

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/training/10132.html

To move off-topic again - it is really this simple - RED's commitment is to putting its best foot forward the first time. That is why we love this company. That is the heart of "making obsolescence obsolete."

RedCine was/is crippleware. You can say that we should be "grateful" because it's free all you want, but the fact of the matter is, its release and lackluster updating process is one of the gestures which is least consistent with RED's commitment and most aligned with the philosophy of protectionism that RED is supposed to be busting.

The only reason that we have a viable workflow at all, that we can sell to clients, is because they also had the good sense (or the grace) to release Redline, effectively giving a set of keys to the users as well, and we have benefited from all the add-ons -- and each of these add-ons is something that could pretty easily have been integrated into the original program, either in the first place, or else through an upgrade process. Think how different this entire conversation would be, if the post- software upgrades moved along as efficiently as the firmware upgrades do...we would be so happy.:biggrin:

As it is, the existing workflow is a hack of multiple programs, unless you pay up for a program that costs as much or more than the camera itself. And my gratitude is towards guys like Hans and Ian, who saved the post-program program -- a save that was incidental, not integral.

I only wish that the post workflow reflected as well on RED as the cameras. That is what I would have called a successfull program. Hopefully, we'll get there soon.
 
AntonyCASAFilms said:
tomk358, a brilliant idea.

So here it is.... http://red-workflow.wikispot.org/Front_Page

I have incorporated some of your posting, but as I have no idea what CineForm Express is or how to use it, I will let you edit the wiki to provide more details....

Thanks,
Antony
Click to expand...

Thanks Anthony, I added some more details and corrections. The CineForm Express file color accurate "Mini Me" versions of CineForm RAW 4K, 444 or 422 HD files. They are 1K versions of all your sources (no matter their resolution) with a low datarate between 2-3MB/s. The Express files share the same color database entry as the online files so you can perform Active Metadata corrections (whitebalance, curves, gamma, color matrix and 3DLUT changes) and have them automatically applied to master files (as non-destructive metadata) when there are created. They are the fastest way to edit R3D sources, with with minimal overhead in their creation and movement over networks.
 
the worklflow wiki into The Purgatory Magazine.

the worklflow wiki into The Purgatory Magazine.

@tomk358 , @ AntonyCASAFilms

Would you guys mind to check out my page I am just building?:
http://www.jonasrejman.com/webpage_purplemagazine/

I started it for the EXACT SAME REASON as you guys started the wiki. To have one centrum of all the infos about red. Mostly as a links directory. It was initially a research of mine, that I needed to access so often, that I put it online. It should remain a non-registration non-suscription page. OpenSource, maybe later with some adds.


I will link to this post anyway, but I wonder If you guys would be willing to become editors of this page as well, and eventually even move to it from your wiki?

PM me please, what you think of it, I will gladly create you useraccounts.
 
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