Red Support for Adobe

[Gian Joon]

Adobe made a smart choice of collaborating with them.

Collaborating with whom? Red or Assimilate. It looks like from your statement that adobe is collaborating Assimilate.

 

[Gian Joon]

and oh by the way tell Adobe we will still upgrade to cs4, almost every user has cs3 even if they are an Avid or fcp user.

Shashbugu you have hit the nail on head. That is rumour going around everywhere. Adobe is trying to bring CS4 before plugin. Otherwise it would have been out for quite some time.:sad:

 

[shashbugu]

yes my friend Joon adobe is collaborating with red and assimilate, that is some really good news. I hope adobe infuses cash into both companies, they have some of the smartest minds in the digital film R&D industry. as two young companies they are well on their way to becoming leaders.

in cs5 adobe needs to beef up Bridge into a networked server type environment so multiple users can work simultaneously on different aspects of a single project using dynamic link. why do I stress this? I live in Los Angeles where we practice division of labor as opposed to waiting for a project to pass through the post pipeline we want to all work with what we have immediately, sound, picture effects etc that is the practice that has made Avid the editing platform and FCP server the new go to platform. When you look at the upcoming Cs4 and its ability to 3d render passes using lightwave rendition in photoshop, having X, y , and z channels independently in After effects, the being able to native formats like R3D in one click, then compressing to a variety of formats including online, ipod/iphones and cellphones that clearly is the future.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hey Omen -

Great meeting you at IBC!

There's a closer public look here -

http://tv.adobe.com/#vi+f1555v1713

Great meeting you too, Mark.


No mentioning of .r3d there but we'll find out soon enough...

 

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Where is that plug in!

 

[laguun]

Well, of course our custo...

...oh, never mind.


Lucas

bla bla, fucking straight bla.

newbies like o-h in NYC
etc will not understand what they are missing,
and will happily add $$.$$$.

Ototh, in 2010/2011, nobody will care about a "scratch" because you missed your window of oopurtunity.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

and oh by the way tell Adobe we will still upgrade to cs4, almost every user has cs3 even if they are an Avid or fcp user. the are some kinds of software you just cant do without, adobe cs series products have become like microsoft office software very essential.
I have always said regardless of price, if you have ever used or seen scratch being used you will be amazed and your jaw will drop. the interface is so straight forward, makes so much sense and runs smoothly and powerfully. dont take my word for it just download redcine. Adobe made a smart choice of collaborating with them.

last thing we need to keep this thread going and get the attention of the decision makers at red, to release the beta for the R3D plug

I am certain Scratch is a great software, but RedCine was a mistake from the start. This is the most AUTISTIC program you can think of, and it has made Red's postproduction look like a mess in front of the whole industry… for over a year.
Great damage done to everybody really, when you think how sound and easy is the concept of RSX-RedAlert-RedLine-Clipfinder, why not have Red or someone else push this concept just a little further, and I mean on both platform.
All efforts should have gone along those lines instead of f…g everything off with RedCine, if Assimilate wanted to give Red a hand, fine, but then they should do it right instead of leaving us with a crippled-unmaintained-autistic application.

Now, we were just about to get this plugin for Adobe, comes Assimilate, and we don't get our plugin'… Annoying, it may well be totally unrelated, but annoying nevertheless.

Do we really need to have Assimilate in the mix everytime, for what good in the end, if it means more delay and no serious affordable products in our hands.

I mean what good did it do the first time around, Scratch got a lot of advertizing from Red but the Red workflow only got RedCine from Assimilate, and you know what I think of it… a solid mistake.

Luki, please bear in mind I am not criticizing Scratch, a great program if you need to print back to film, but for the rest it would be better if you could keep out of it, or deliver serious affordable solutions… now.
Because you've had a looong time to work on it, longer than anybody in the industry, to what avail??
And all of a sudden you need to partner with Adobe just when they are about to deliver an outstanding and affordable solution???

This has been on my chest for a while, sorry for the rant but I don't need anymore messing around my Red workflow.:calm:

Emmanuel

 

[Gian Joon]

Emmanuel you are not alone in this. There are thousands of other Redusers having same feeling.

 

[Colin Hubick]

...so anything new to report now that Adobe released CS4?...

 

[Colin Hubick]

guess not

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Emmanuel,

Opinions on Redcine are far and wide. Some people, like you, obviously don't like it. However, a great many people use it every day and are fairly fond of it. How many people on Reduser really like the Crimson workflow? And that uses... Redcine, in a pretty robust manner.

"Now, we were just about to get this plugin for Adobe, comes Assimilate, and we don't get our plugin'… Annoying, it may well be totally unrelated, but annoying nevertheless."

It appears that me doing my job creating business relationships for Assimilate has offended your sensibility. Sorry about that.

If you really think that a company as large and powerful as Adobe is being "pushed around" by us, and that the relationship there is not completely a two-way street, then you have very little clue how business works. And if you think in any way that our relationship with Adobe has slowed down the plug-in - well - that's just insane. The RED plugin for Adobe has two partners... Adobe and RED. And we're involved in slowing that down how exactly?

"Do we really need to have Assimilate in the mix everytime, for what good in the end, if it means more delay and no serious affordable products in our hands."

The SDK is out now. Avid, Autodesk, Filmlight, DaVinci, Digital Vision, Iridas, and many others have it in their hands and have released workflows. Have any of these companies changed their pricing models? No. Have any of these offered products exclusively aimed at the RED market? No.

Assimilate did, with SCRATCH-CINE. We created a product exclusively for the RED market, and dramatically lowered the price of that product to try and make it accessible for many more people.

But of course, you ignore that, because it's not less than US$5K. You want really inexpensive tools, right? Ok, cool. Sounds like you've got your perfect workflow in RSX-RedAlert-RedLine-Clipfinder, or FCP-Crimson-REDCINE. So you're complaining about what exactly?

"Luki, please bear in mind I am not criticizing Scratch, a great program if you need to print back to film, but for the rest it would be better if you could keep out of it, or deliver serious affordable solutions… now. "

The vast majority of RED customers who are using SCRATCH and SCRATCH-CINE are using it for broadcast delivery to HDCAM-SR.

Your idea of "affordable" is a consumer mindset. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is. RED releases a 4K camera for US$17,500. With lenses and everything else that you need for a working kit, it's probably around US$30K, yes? And that is revolutionary.

We release a working, turnkey system that can take those files, load them instantly, conform, color correct, and output them in realtime to any SMPTE format and a wide variety of file formats. in a tunrkey package for US$35K, and that is outrageous and expensive and damaging to the market. Interesting.

Tell you what - go complain to Apple. They have not delivered the solution you want, otherwise you probably wouldn't be whining at me. Oh wait... Apple doesn't participate here and doesn't go out of their way to really try and help this community on a one-on-one basis. So you probably don't know who to complain at.

"Because you've had a looong time to work on it, longer than anybody in the industry, to what avail?? "

To the avail of a few hundred post facilities and other customers worldwide who now have reliable, realtime workflows for their RED projects.

"And all of a sudden you need to partner with Adobe just when they are about to deliver an outstanding and affordable solution???"

I'll try and clear it with you the next time I make business development decisions for my company.

This has been on my chest for a while, sorry for the rant but I don't need anymore messing around my Red workflo

Glad you got it off your chest. And it sounds like you have a workflow you're happy with. So, this accomplished what exactly?

"but then they should do it right instead of leaving us with a crippled-unmaintained-autistic application."

My son is autistic. I've never considered him crippled. You might want to be a little more careful with comments like this, or you might piss off more people than just me.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Darren Orange]

Lucas I'm with ya,

Everything you do is about relationships and building a team to do things better! Assimilate has been a key part in RED's ability to do things better! People should respect and support and be excited that there will be many more good things to come that go beyond anyones expectations. Everyone should be supporting Assimilates involvement because it will be better for all of us in the end. Just my thoughts but I'm sticking to them. Lucas has gone above and beyond, he and his company should get everyones support and respect!


P.S. Respectfully, Emmanuel, some of the things you had to say where a little out of line.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I am certain Scratch is a great software, but RedCine was a mistake from the start.

I think Lucas said what needed to be said... But I also have to jump on this very first statement.

What is it about Redcine that you don't like? IMO, Redcine is great, although still a bit rough around the edges. It's beta software still... It's my preferred tool over RED Alert in terms of actually working with and grading footage. RA + RedRushes is fine for going to ProRes / HD/ SD delivery. But Crimson is far better for really high quality output for blu-ray or film. I don't do enough of the right projects to justify SCRATCH, I'm 98% RA-> RR-> ProRes -> FCS. And Redcine with Crimson & GlueTools fills that remaining 2% very well.

 

[Adam Glick]

It seems to me that one of the most commonly lacking tools around here is perspective.

2 1/2 short years ago, in the time before the DALSA Origin, shooting at 4K was impossible. And even working with 4K (or even 2K) film scans was relegated to only a few of the very most high-end editing and vfx platforms. The 4K camera was $3000/day not including the kit or DITs. The software and hardware required for DI were many times more expensive.

1 1/2 years ago, before NAB 2007, most of us had never seen nor touched a RED ONE camera in person. And certainly there were no software or hardware tools ready at the time.

Every single one of us who is involved in the RED REVOLUTION in any way should always remember that we are blazing new trails with every step. We are "early adopters" in every sense of the word. And we signed up for this.

The progress that has been made in just a short time is ASTOUNDING by any measure.

I know all this is hard to keep in mind when you've promised a job to a client and you're sweating the deadline...but you have to remember that you got in line for this ride.

It's October 2008 and there are working R3D workflows and toolsets available to fit just about any needs or budget.

I'll be the first to admit it -I'm not a film maker, I'm a technologist.

But here's some basic advice I give (free of charge) that might apply (but not necessarily in this order) :

1. learn about the relevant technology
2. pick a business model and a target market that make sense
3. invest in the right tools (and people) for the job
4. set clients/partners expectations accordingly


Or I guess you don't have to...

 

[Evin Grant]

I think Apple is really to blame here. Including Color in FCS2 introduced an entire new segment of the industry to secondary color correction and DI. Consequently we're spoiled. You can suffer through Color if you like but realtime is no easy task, for any finishing system. There are real (time) reasons why the big boys cost real (time) money.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I'm confused,

There's a workflow for CS3 (NOT 4) out right now. It's less than $3k and offers real time editing and full color bit depth. You do have to transcode, but what's the big deal!? Set it over night and your footage is ready for editing the next morning.

I don't understand what you are complaining about. I HOPE the reason you are upset is not because you want FREE... If that's the case, there's nothing I can say to you.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I think Apple is really to blame here. Including Color in FCS2 introduced an entire new segment of the industry to secondary color correction and DI. Consequently we're spoiled. You can suffer through Color if you like but realtime is no easy task, for any finishing system. There are real (time) reasons why the big boys cost real (time) money.

gpu based software will get cheap...happened to others things too

 

[AntonyCASAFilms]

We are "early adopters" in every sense of the word. And we signed up for this.

I disagree to some extent.

OK, those people who signed up for cameras 1 to 1000, you could rightly regard as early adopters.

However for later cameras, people "signed up" on the basis of announcements such as "the Red plug-in for Premiere will be ready in 2 weeks".

Several months later my camera has now arrived, but the plug-in hasn't, so now I am left wondering what workflow I can use for very low-budget film work with PCs and Windows.

 

[number6]

I disagree to some extent.

OK, those people who signed up for cameras 1 to 1000, you could rightly regard as early adopters.

However for later cameras, people "signed up" on the basis of announcements such as "the Red plug-in for Premiere will be ready in 2 weeks".

Several months later my camera has now arrived, but the plug-in hasn't, so now I am left wondering what workflow I can use for very low-budget film work with PCs and Windows.

This says it pretty well IMO.

 

[Adam Glick]

However for later cameras, people "signed up" on the basis of announcements such as "the Red plug-in for Premiere will be ready in 2 weeks".

In the words of Jim - "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it."


My bet is that the functionality of the Adobe plugin for r3d will exceed everybody's expectations when it's released.