RED Speed control box Please

[Shane V8F]

Jim or Jarred:

Now that we are going to have 120 FPS, I think it is time for an external devise that will let you ramp frame rates up and down during a shot. I know you can do a ramp triggered by the rec button on the RED, but an external box like a film camera uses would be awesome.

All it needs is a rotary knob with a de-taunt for the starting frame rate you are using. You should be able to turn it counterclockwise to slow the frame rate down to 0 where it would just take 1 shot and hold. Turning the knob clockwise past the center de-taunt would increase the frame rate all the way to the max the camera is capable of doing. A frame rate readout on the box would be great as well as a run / stop button.

Ok there's the idea, now I know the geniuses at RED or someone on this site has the ability to make it work.

A 5% royalty would be highly appreciated.http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/redsmilies/greedy.gif

Please, put me down as the first one on the reserve list.

Thanks,

Shane Harness
RED #108

 

[Finner]

Why would you want this?

 

[Shane V8F]

This would be great for music videos and commercials. You could ramp up and down, back to 24 fps then up again or down in the same shot. If an artist was singing a verse and there was a quick music break between the next verse you could ramp down then back to 24 when they started singing again, or any variation of this. Say they are performing in front of moving objects, when you ramp the artist could freeze and the background would go nuts.
I just want to be able to control my ramps within a shot, maybe do several changes in the same shot.

 

[CJ Roy]

Why would you want this?

Why wouldn't you?

 

[Finner]

I understand what ramps do, I just meant ramping in camera is how ramps were done in the 90's. There are much more effective ways to do it now.

 

[Shane V8F]

I posted this same thread a few minutes ago and it disappeared, so I put it up again. Does any know why it would just disappear?

 

[Shane V8F]

I understand what ramps do, I just meant ramping in camera is how ramps were done in the 90's. There are much more effective ways to do it now.

Please tell me how? If you shoot at 24 fps and want to do slow motion in post there is not enough frames to make it smooth.

 

[Finner]

I posted this same thread a few minutes ago and it disappeared, so I put it up again. Does any know why it would just disappear?

Probably because camera ramping devices have been collecting dust since 1999.

 

[Finner]

Please tell me how? If you shoot at 24 fps and want to do slow motion in post there is not enough frames to make it smooth.

Like I mentioned I have not seen an in camera ramp done for many years as it is quite ineffective and adds more problems then it solves.

The best way to ramp is to shoot at what ever speed you decide is going to be your top frame rate. Lets say it is 120fps, you shoot the whole shot at 120 fps and decide your in and out points for the ramp at any speed for any duration in post. This gives you unlimited ramp choices and eliminates having to sync the shutter or iris to compensate for an in camera ramp.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Yeah, why the heck would you want to do this? Shoot the whole shot in 120fps then speed portions up to 24fps. You could be so much more precise in post. I see know reason, other than file size, to ramp on location. Just buy a few more CF cards or a RedDrive.

 

[Shane V8F]

Probably because camera ramping devices have been collecting dust since 1999.

Now you are just making me feel old...

Forgive me if there is a better way and smoother way to do this kind of shot, I would really like to know. I have never seen a shot at 24fps look good slowed down. Why do you think the RED team is working so hard to increase the frame rate of the RED? I guess you could shoot your whole music video or commercial at 120fps then speed it up or slow it way down. this just seems like a lot of time to render and play back.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I guess you could shoot your whole music video or commercial at 120fps then speed it up or slow it way down. this just seems like a lot of time to render and play back.

Are you planning on shooting it all in one take? Otherwise, just pick which areas you'd want and get those takes in all 120. Why not do it that way?

 

[Shane V8F]

Are you planning on shooting it all in one take? Otherwise, just pick which areas you'd want and get those takes in all 120. Why not do it that way?

I guess it is old habits.. and not wanting to deal with changing the speed of the whole shot. Your way does work, but as a director it would be nice to see the shot played back from camera the way I envisioned it.

 

[Finner]

I guess it is old habits.. and not wanting to deal with changing the speed of the whole shot. Your way does work, but as a director it would be nice to see the shot played back from camera the way I envisioned it.

But the way Shawn and I are explaining it you have unlimited control over the shot. The last in camera ramp I did was in 2000 or 2001 sometime and when the director asked for a in camera ramp all of us in the camera dept had a little bit of a chuckle. In camera ramps worked well before all the slick new post solutions came out.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I guess it is old habits.. and not wanting to deal with changing the speed of the whole shot. Your way does work, but as a director it would be nice to see the shot played back from camera the way I envisioned it.

Aye, but doing it in post removes any chance of error. What if the AC hits it a second too late? You're screwed. In post, you can be precise about when the ramping occurs, and at what length. Maybe in the quiet of the edit room you realize that 1.5 sec later the actress get's a glimmer in her eye that makes a perfect moment for the ramp. If you'd ramped on set you'd not have that option.

This is tying into the core reason of why Red really has very, very few options to adjust image in camera (as compared to a Varicam, F900, etc.). Get the cleanest image and most amount of data on set possible, then decide the other elements later.

 

[Shane V8F]

Watching 120fps playback takes a long time, especially if you are talking about a shot more then a few seconds. If my ramping effect has elements that have to move just right and change speed at the same time, you would not know if it really worked correctly until you brought the shot up in FCP and rendered the speed change out. Why not just be able to look at the effect right out of the camera.

I know the new mentality is to do everything in post, but I like to do as much as I can in camera to know I got the shot. Call me old school...

I think most people over 30 that have been shooting longer then a lot of you have been alive may agree.

 

[John Brawley]

Like I mentioned I have not seen an in camera ramp done for many years as it is quite ineffective and adds more problems then it solves.

You may of course choose to do it in camera because you like what happens to the temporal effects with things like fire or water as you change shutter speed during a ramp.

jb

 

[Manolo S. Navazo]

good flow shawn and finner,

but to got the possibillity to control the ramp also on set is a must!!!

i can imagine there are a lot of dop's, saying this camera isn't right for my project if they are acclimated by filmcameras. and the other thing is, yes you must see this in playback on set for perhaps your costumers, your director.

greetz

 

[Mike Prevette]

With Red's ability to match shutterangle to fps, in-camera ramps start to make more sense (no BS iris ramps, or Sticcato shutter at 24). It is a little fun to do them live, but I agree a post solution is a lot safer/controllable/creative.

 

[gnomer]

I hate that DOPs want to do all in field by themselves. I prefer clean perfect footage without any art. Then you can play with image and make your art later in post. That way it is more under control.